The Ref Stop

Having officals on line

refdave83

refdave83

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Hi all,

As a L7 ref, it's rare that I get officials on my line. This morning I did have one.

Clearly experienced one and a youngster. The experienced one went bench side.

I booked a player in the 1st half for a double footed tackle, could have argued a RC, but I decided a YC, no one moaned.

Another tackle by a different player went in, I didn't think it was a YC, but a strong word would suffice. Pulled him over and managed it, and got on with the game. At HT the experienced AR, told me to justify why I didn't book him as there was clear intent. I told him it didn't look
That bad and I felt I could man mange it. He told me if I was being assessed I would be deducted points and he would have RC the other player!

then in the second half, foul on the edge of the box. I believed it was JUST inside. It's near to the same AR. he does not indicate anything as seen I have give the PK. At the end if the game in the dressing room he tells me he knew it was outside the box and if I came over he would have told me !! I was furious. He could see I was getting stick for it but just left me hanging.

I told them in the pre-march if you see a foul - flag it.

am I in the wrong for giving to little a brief before the game?
 
The Ref Stop
Did you indicate a penalty as you blew? If not the assistant should have got your attention (if he had not flagged) and moved to the corner flag to indicate a penalty. Or made a clear step down the touchline away from the penalty area to indicate no penalty.

If you had blown and already indicated penalty, AR should just go with your decision.

This is something that should be part of the prematch speech.

That said, the AR certainly hasn't helped you.
 
I blew and pointed to the spot. Everyone (other team) saying outside - look at AR - just stood still
 
Then he was correct. Usual instruction I give and receive is that if the ref/I blow and point to the spot it's live or die by that decision. For an AR to try and dispute it once the penalty is given is a no no. If you blow and look at AR for assistance before deciding penalty or not then he can help you.

did he say any of this after the game?
 
To be fair to him he said that he didn't wanna make a big scene and I had already decided it was a PK
 
Then it's a learning experience. If you don't usually work with NARs it's getting used to working as part of a team rather than having potentially cheating CARs. It'll come, needs practice and experience mate. We have all been there.
 
SM said:
Then he was correct. Usual instruction I give and receive is that if the ref/I blow and point to the spot it's live or die by that decision. For an AR to try and dispute it once the penalty is given is a no no. If you blow and look at AR for assistance before deciding penalty or not then he can help you.

did he say any of this after the game?
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What's the correct procedure in that situation? Is it a case of blowing and looking at the AR before pointing?
 
Ideally it's part of the pre-match briefing - if you go together on those decisions within credible distance of the AR it looks so much better, but that has to be balanced with the AR assisting, not insisting, on the decision. You can't really cover all angles in the pre-match so, when I've had ARs myself I've gone for an instruction to give me a signal (either for penalty or for free kick) if it's credible and you're sure, otherwise leave it to me.

In your situation if the AR was certain he could have raised the flag and asked for a word (in his shoes I certainly wouldn't have expected you to come over to discuss without any signal as that assumes you were unsure, which you weren't). I can also see why he didn't - as it would undermine you if he was seen to overrule a decision you'd already made.
 
refdave83 said:
Hi all,

As a L7 ref, it's rare that I get officials on my line. This morning I did have one.

Clearly experienced one and a youngster. The experienced one went bench side.

I booked a player in the 1st half for a double footed tackle, could have argued a RC, but I decided a YC, no one moaned.
If I was assessing, this could lose you .5 of a mark in AOL - something you don't want! By double footed, one is not in control of their body - endangering the safety of an opponent = SFP. But this is a debate for another day.

Another tackle by a different player went in, I didn't think it was a YC, but a strong word would suffice. Pulled him over and managed it, and got on with the game. At HT the experienced AR, told me to justify why I didn't book him as there was clear intent. I told him it didn't look
That bad and I felt I could man mange it. He told me if I was being assessed I would be deducted points and he would have RC the other player!
If you don't think it's a caution, you don't think it's a caution. Who cares. Obviously I wasn't there, but you do learn when to accept and think about someones advice, or just ignore it and carry on.

then in the second half, foul on the edge of the box. I believed it was JUST inside. It's near to the same AR. he does not indicate anything as seen I have give the PK. At the end if the game in the dressing room he tells me he knew it was outside the box and if I came over he would have told me !! I was furious. He could see I was getting stick for it but just left me hanging.
Poor work by the AR. Even if you didn't mention in the pre-match, I would expect some help from him.

I told them in the pre-march if you see a foul - flag it.

am I in the wrong for giving to little a brief before the game?
Covering fouls
1) I expect you to give fouls in your credible areas, but please take into base your decisions on my ones. I.e. if I am letting the game flow, also let the game flow. If I am slowing the game down, also slow the game down. (This way you don't have a busy assistant who flags for everything he sees!)
2) With free kicks outside/inside the area. Flag me, wait for my whistle, then make a movement towards the goaline for a penalty, or towards the halfway line for a free kick.
3) Penalty - 3 situations. I have given it. I have not given it. I am looking at you for help
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If Id been the ref Id crucified him but I agree with maybe the first challenge yes should been red but if your ar did not tell you it was outside box till after Id gone mad and id be giving him the dressing down
 
You've gone and pointed to the spot before looking at your assistant. So you must have been confident it was inside?

When I run the line I only get looked at if its my side and the referee is unsure then I can run to the corner flag if its in, stay outside the box if its out (and if I'm unsure). If the referee points straight to the spot then their instructions are that they live and die by their decisions and that if you think I'm wrong wait until the changing rooms to tell me.
 
Jacko said:
You've gone and pointed to the spot before looking at your assistant. So you must have been confident it was inside?

When I run the line I only get looked at if its my side and the referee is unsure then I can run to the corner flag if its in, stay outside the box if its out (and if I'm unsure). If the referee points straight to the spot then their instructions are that they live and die by their decisions and that if you think I'm wrong wait until the changing rooms to tell me.
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It's almost like you read my post and then wrote it out again! :D
 
ref craig said:
No but that what I would done
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Well I assume you've seen the term "double footed tackle" and thought red card every time.
Dont think the term "double footed" or "two footed" appears anywhere in LOTG and it is perfectly possible to make a legal challenge with both feet.
You can't possibly tell a referee what card he should have shown on a challenge you haven't seen and as little info as is given in the OP
 
A two footed tackle is sending off all day long and i would say one of the assessors on here would say the same thing
 
Refcraig - in most situations a double footed tackle does result in a red card, which I have put in my comment.

There are occasions where it is not SFP and can be classed as reckless. I.e. the player is on the floor already, puts two feet into the ball to block it - going through the ball at a slow place, with no risk of endangering the safety of an opponent.
 
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