The Ref Stop

Handling the ball - the way forward

ChasObserverRefDeveloper

ChasObserverRefDeveloper

Regular Contributor
Having read with interest the various views expressed about the current law on handling, the possible changes for next season, the opinions about recent examples in the Premier League, and the various suggestions about changes, here's a friendly challenge for all contributors and readers. Some time during the next seven days, post here your version of the how the handball law should look for 2020-2021. When readers like it, they can add a "like". If they wish to comment, I am sure they will. Next weekend we can congratulate the contributor who scores the most likes. Over to you.
 
The Ref Stop
The only way to play it is hand ball is hand ball no matter if its intentional or not, doesn't matter if it works for or against the attacking/defending team, none of this unnatural body shape nonsense, if the ball hits the players arm it's a DFK end of story, but it will never be that simple will it.
 
It is an offence if the ball touches your hand or arm from the shoulder to the fingertips unless you're the goalkeeper in your own penalty area...simple, no controversy from that one.....
 
Simple: go back to deliberate ITOOTR.

There is no purely objective model except strict liability: any contact is an offense. And I strongly believe that would be a terrible model. A defender falls in the PA, just kick the ball at his arm. So let’s stop pretending it can be objective and punish what the problem is: deliberate use of the hands/arms.
 
socal lurker said:
Simple: go back to deliberate ITOOTR.

There is no purely objective model except strict liability: any contact is an offense. And I strongly believe that would be a terrible model. A defender falls in the PA, just kick the ball at his arm. So let’s stop pretending it can be objective and punish what the problem is: deliberate use of the hands/arms.
Click to expand...
Whilst I absolutely agree with the sentiment, we're in this pickle precisely because the upper echelons did not apply this law as written..........
 
The only change I would make is to change the disallowed goal law for unintentional handling to it only being disallowed if it accidentally hits the hand or arm and that scores a goal or directly assists one.

I completely disagree with penalising any time the ball hits the arms or hands, as others have said players will kick the ball at an opponent to win a penalty. I think there's be more controversy with that suggested law than there is currently.
 
RustyRef said:
The only change I would make is to change the disallowed goal law for unintentional handling to it only being disallowed if it accidentally hits the hand or arm and that scores a goal or directly assists one.

I completely disagree with penalising any time the ball hits the arms or hands, as others have said players will kick the ball at an opponent to win a penalty. I think there's be more controversy with that suggested law than there is currently.
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Yet a similar law in hockey is not disputed.........if we do not go down the route of any handling is an offence then we must go back to deliberate handball is an offence and we need to accept that an accidental hand ball can score a goal.......
 
As per Page 102 of the 18/19 book
Deliberate Act
Considering;
i) movement of the hand towards the ball [not the ball towards the hand];
ii) the distance between the opponent and the ball

Adding that a goal cannot be scored directly from the hand
And that a player should be dismissed for scoring a goal via deliberate handball

Why this original Law couldn't be enforced (outside the UK), I don't know
Why IFAB went beyond my first suggestion, is anyone's guess
DOGSO HB has to be mirrored at the other end of the FOP with an equivalent dismissal
 
ChasTutorObserver said:
Having read with interest the various views expressed about the current law on handling, the possible changes for next season, the opinions about recent examples in the Premier League, and the various suggestions about changes, here's a friendly challenge for all contributors and readers. Some time during the next seven days, post here your version of the how the handball law should look for 2020-2021. When readers like it, they can add a "like". If they wish to comment, I am sure they will. Next weekend we can congratulate the contributor who scores the most likes. Over to you.
Click to expand...
There is no possible. The laws have been released for 2020/2021. They are as written now.
Fwiw, I wish we just went back to deliberate itootr. With the added caveat that any handball that scores a goal, or directly assists is disallowed. And maybe with accidental just restart with a GK as opposed to DFK in recognition that it was not intentional.
 
Mintyref said:
Yet a similar law in hockey is not disputed.........if we do not go down the route of any handling is an offence then we must go back to deliberate handball is an offence and we need to accept that an accidental hand ball can score a goal.......
Click to expand...
The problem with the hockey comparison is that for accidental foot contact, (I believe) the short corner provides for a penalty that is less severe than a penalty kick is in football. Any contact with the foot can be an offence, but it does not automatically result in a ~90% chance of a goal - therefore it doesn't often make sense to deliberately play it at an opponent's foot when you could instead try to work a shot at goal.

Were any similar ball-to-hand contact in football to be considered a foul, you would either have to give penalties when it happens in the PA (unfairly high chance of scoring), downgrade accidental contact to an IFK (which everyone hates in the PA), or invent an entirely new punishment. None of those sound like a good solution to me, therefore I think saying "It works in hockey" isn't a fair comparison.

I also believe there is even some leniency in hockey's rule to allow for foot contact where the "offender" doesn't benefit (ie if there were in acres of space and the foot contact didn't help them control it) or the umpire believes it was deliberately manufactured by the attacker, but I know there are members on here with more hockey experience than me, so I'm happy to be corrected if any of this is inaccurate.
 
Big Cat said:
As per Page 102 of the 18/19 book
Deliberate Act
Considering;
i) movement of the hand towards the ball [not the ball towards the hand];
ii) the distance between the opponent and the ball

Adding that a goal cannot be scored directly from the hand
And that a player should be dismissed for scoring a goal via deliberate handball

Why this original Law couldn't be enforced (outside the UK), I don't know
Why IFAB went beyond my first suggestion, is anyone's guess
DOGSO HB has to be mirrored at the other end of the FOP with an equivalent dismissal
Click to expand...

I’m happy with this.

They must simplify the laws (particularly handball but also e.g. restarts, sanctions).

It is not acceptable to have confusing lists of criteria that change every year plus un-learnable lists of “considerations” from e.g.FIFA.

Big Cat has cracked it here with two considerations that are easy to remember and two key scenarios with specific outcomes. Most importantly it’s ditched the “creates a GSO” which (as per other threads) is rubbish!
 
GraemeS said:
The problem with the hockey comparison is that for accidental foot contact, (I believe) the short corner provides for a penalty that is less severe than a penalty kick is in football. Any contact with the foot can be an offence, but it does not automatically result in a ~90% chance of a goal - therefore it doesn't often make sense to deliberately play it at an opponent's foot when you could instead try to work a shot at goal.

Were any similar ball-to-hand contact in football to be considered a foul, you would either have to give penalties when it happens in the PA (unfairly high chance of scoring), downgrade accidental contact to an IFK (which everyone hates in the PA), or invent an entirely new punishment. None of those sound like a good solution to me, therefore I think saying "It works in hockey" isn't a fair comparison.

I also believe there is even some leniency in hockey's rule to allow for foot contact where the "offender" doesn't benefit (ie if there were in acres of space and the foot contact didn't help them control it) or the umpire believes it was deliberately manufactured by the attacker, but I know there are members on here with more hockey experience than me, so I'm happy to be corrected if any of this is inaccurate.
Click to expand...
Pretty much correct, except "manufacturing an offence" is no longer a thing (either it really is an offence by the defender, or the attacker who made it happen was doing something wrong/dangerous of their own first).

I still don't know why an IFK in the PA is not simply made a CK. Clears up all the problems and uses a set play that everybody is already happy with.
 
After 6 days this thread has run out of steam, with no-one yet brave enough to post what they think the law on handling should look like in 2020/2021 (and yes, James L, I know the IFAB version has been published)
Another thread (Wolves match) has mirrored this one, with a range of views expressed.
As a personal view, I don't support the idea of penalising a defender for a clearly accidental handball (e.g. hits the back of his arm while he is on the ground a metre from the kicker) and I just regret that the simplification of the laws three years ago has resulted in a lot of supplementary guidance that is not in the Laws book.
In my time (30 years, no time off for good behaviour) as a referee, the referee penalised if the handling was deliberate in his/her opinion. Some variances of opinion occurred but ITOOTR ruled!
The only addition needed is the 2020/2021 version of goal/immediate goal opportunity, which seems to make sense.
Only one post in this thread has earned a "Like" so far, with 24 hours to go of the original timetable.
Thoughts very welcome!
 
ChasTutorObserver said:
After 6 days this thread has run out of steam, with no-one yet brave enough to post what they think the law on handling should look like in 2020/2021 (and yes, James L, I know the IFAB version has been published)
Another thread (Wolves match) has mirrored this one, with a range of views expressed.
As a personal view, I don't support the idea of penalising a defender for a clearly accidental handball (e.g. hits the back of his arm while he is on the ground a metre from the kicker) and I just regret that the simplification of the laws three years ago has resulted in a lot of supplementary guidance that is not in the Laws book.
In my time (30 years, no time off for good behaviour) as a referee, the referee penalised if the handling was deliberate in his/her opinion. Some variances of opinion occurred but ITOOTR ruled!
The only addition needed is the 2020/2021 version of goal/immediate goal opportunity, which seems to make sense.
Only one post in this thread has earned a "Like" so far, with 24 hours to go of the original timetable.
Thoughts very welcome!
Click to expand...
Think you'll find I did exactly that......at post 4
 
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