A&H

Handball

R

Redref34

Active Member
Level 5 Referee
Hi all.

Just joined forum.

I have been refereeing for quite a long time but took some time out whilst playing and have got back into it recently and really enjoying it.

There is one decision that I really hope does not come up in my games and that is Handball.. particularly in the penalty area. I have read and re read the laws and I understand what handball is but, as I am sure you are aware, I don’t think many people involved in the game (non referees) are aware of the law changes.

The reason I don’t particularly want it to occur is because the in the most recent handballs that have occurred in my games everyone has been expecting me to give decisions based on the old law, especially at youth level. I have been giving handballs based on the new laws but this causes a lot of agro. I gave a handball at the weekend in an U18 county fixture because everyone stopped and it was the expectation that I had to give it. IMO it was not handball!

Does anyone have any tips when it comes to making handball decisions and how to manage the expectations of players and coaches? Apart from the obvious.. ref to the laws and then explain ..

Thank you
 
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Bonref34 said:
Does anyone have any tips when it comes to making handball decisions and how to manage the expectations of players and coaches?
Click to expand...

Maintain your consistency from the off basically.

If you're not giving one, don't give the other and so on and so forth. If the appeals persist, you may want to bring the captains in and tell them to cut it out.

I understand your frustration, I've had many a discussion and explanation about handball this year due to the old laws, and that includes one match abandoned over it because a team got super aggressive about it and didn't believe me.
 
Bonref34 said:
Hi all.

Just joined forum.

I have been refereeing for quite a long time but took some time out whilst playing and have got back into it recently and really enjoying it.

There is one decision that I really hope does not come up in my games and that is Handball.. particularly in the penalty area. I have read and re read the laws and I understand what handball is but, as I am sure you are aware, I don’t think many people involved in the game (non referees) are aware of the law changes.

The reason I don’t particularly want it to occur is because the in the most recent handballs that have occurred in my games everyone has been expecting me to give decisions based on the old law, especially at youth level. I have been giving handballs based on the new laws but this causes a lot of agro. I gave a handball at the weekend in an U18 county fixture because everyone stopped and it was the expectation that I had to give it. IMO it was not handball!

Does anyone have any tips when it comes to making handball decisions and how to manage the expectations of players and coaches? Apart from the obvious.. ref to the laws and then explain ..

Thank you
Click to expand...
It's one of those where we ALL need to hang in there and do what is right based on the most recent law change. The great news is that IFAB hasn't tinkered with it for next season, so we have another whole year of it getting bedded in. IMO the revision to handball has finally got it to a great place .. where players are allowed to do what they want/need to do (run, jump, kick, head) without fear of being penalised when their arms come away from their body in a manner which is entirely natural for those actions.

To help the 'selling' of this, I agree with @RobOda , consistency is vital. Additionally, immediate loud communication really helps ... along the lines of "No Intent" or "Natural Position".

I'd estimate I currently turn down at least half a dozen handball appeals in each game. We are still in a world where players and officials will claim handball whenever the ball hits an opponents' arm. Let's not do them the satisfaction of rewarding the vast majority of these appeals which are incorrect!
 
Bonref34 said:
Hi all.

Just joined forum.

I have been refereeing for quite a long time but took some time out whilst playing and have got back into it recently and really enjoying it.

There is one decision that I really hope does not come up in my games and that is Handball.. particularly in the penalty area. I have read and re read the laws and I understand what handball is but, as I am sure you are aware, I don’t think many people involved in the game (non referees) are aware of the law changes.

The reason I don’t particularly want it to occur is because the in the most recent handballs that have occurred in my games everyone has been expecting me to give decisions based on the old law, especially at youth level. I have been giving handballs based on the new laws but this causes a lot of agro. I gave a handball at the weekend in an U18 county fixture because everyone stopped and it was the expectation that I had to give it. IMO it was not handball!

Does anyone have any tips when it comes to making handball decisions and how to manage the expectations of players and coaches? Apart from the obvious.. ref to the laws and then explain ..

Thank you
Click to expand...
I think it would help if you clarified what you mean by "the old law" and "the new laws."

By "old law," do you mean the law with the slew of amendments introduced in 2019, or the law previous to that?

Because for me, with the latest changes introduced in the 2021/22 edition, we are back a lot closer to the pre-2019 laws.

For instance, the list of definitions of what is and isn't an unnatural position is now gone, and we're left with the situation where only deliberate handling, or handling when the position of the hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation, are handling offences (plus handling leading directly to a goal).

As I see it, the law as it currently stands restores a large amount of autonomy to the referee, that was missing from 2019-21, with its much more prescriptive definitions.

With the way unnatural position is now defined, I think it pushes the entire law back towards requiring some sort of intent on the part of the player (except again, for the goal-related handling clause).

So, if you can tell us which old and new laws you are referring to specifically, perhaps people could give you better advice.
 
Dont bear yourself up too much on it, you get one look, at speed, real time, from prob a poor position, players in your view etc

The tv calls get reviewed, freeze framed, replayed, and before you know it there is a reason to award a handball, or, not

Give what you can, in accordance with the lotg, be consistent, and I agree with Peter Grove, off the record, the law other than attacking player handling scoring, seems to currently lean itself to the ' handballers' benefit of the doubt, the, oh was that handball, is probably not
 
Peter Grove said:
I think it would help if you clarified what you mean by "the old law" and "the new laws."

By "old law," do you mean the law with the slew of amendments introduced in 2019, or the law previous to that?

Because for me, with the latest changes introduced in the 2021/22 edition, we are back a lot closer to the pre-2019 laws.

For instance, the list of definitions of what is and isn't an unnatural position is now gone, and we're left with the situation where only deliberate handling, or handling when the position of the hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation, are handling offences (plus handling leading directly to a goal).

As I see it, the law as it currently stands restores a large amount of autonomy to the referee, that was missing from 2019-21, with its much more prescriptive definitions.

With the way unnatural position is now defined, I think it pushes the entire law back towards requiring some sort of intent on the part of the player (except again, for the goal-related handling clause).

So, if you can tell us which old and new laws you are referring to specifically, perhaps people could give you better advice.
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Thanks for your feedback Peter, very helpful.

I do mean pre 2019 and I get what your saying. Perhaps the very fact that it has changed has caused confusion among some.

I think where handball has changed people are still a bit confused and the media doesn’t help with this.

I referee from under 9s all the way up to adults at the moment and I am trying to apply the law consistently across all of these age groups, taking into account ‘natural position’ and intent.

Russell Jones said:
It's one of those where we ALL need to hang in there and do what is right based on the most recent law change. The great news is that IFAB hasn't tinkered with it for next season, so we have another whole year of it getting bedded in. IMO the revision to handball has finally got it to a great place .. where players are allowed to do what they want/need to do (run, jump, kick, head) without fear of being penalised when their arms come away from their body in a manner which is entirely natural for those actions.

To help the 'selling' of this, I agree with @RobOda , consistency is vital. Additionally, immediate loud communication really helps ... along the lines of "No Intent" or "Natural Position".

I'd estimate I currently turn down at least half a dozen handball appeals in each game. We are still in a world where players and officials will claim handball whenever the ball hits an opponents' arm. Let's not do them the satisfaction of rewarding the vast majority of these appeals which are incorrect!
Click to expand...

Thank you for this.
I suppose it is the same with any law change/ amendment, it takes time to embed and we obviously play a huge part in that.
If it frustrating to see comments from pundits and in the news, for example after last night’s correctly ruled out Chelsea goal. I see things such as ‘controversial’ and ‘harsh’.. I don’t think this helps.
I agree with you on where the law is now.. I wonder what your take on the law relating to players scoring immediately following a handball is (especially completely accidental) Do you agree with this part?
 
Russell Jones said:
IMO the revision to handball has finally got it to a great place .. where players are allowed to do what they want/need to do (run, jump, kick, head) without fear of being penalised when their arms come away from their body in a manner which is entirely natural for those actions
Click to expand...
Problem is however, whilst that is the premise in the book, nobody is Refereeing HB that way, so I'd argue you're a maverick outlier if you're sticking to these guns. Especially at the top level, the interpretation is more akin to playing football like a penguin 🐧 Yes, you're right to Referee HB your way, but you're wrong cos you're on your own. The ROTW has beaten the 'home shores' into submission where HB is concerned

🐧 (note: even this penguin's wings are STILL in an unnatural position according to how the game is refereed in Europe, South America and elsewhere)
 
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Big Cat said:
Problem is however, whilst that is the premise in the book, nobody is Refereeing HB that way, so I'd argue you're a maverick outlier if you're sticking to these guns. Especially at the top level, the interpretation is more akin to playing football like a penguin 🐧 Yes, you're right to Referee HB your way, but you're wrong cos you're on your own. The ROTW has beaten the 'home shores' into submission where HB is concerned

🐧 (note: even this penguin's wings are STILL in an unnatural position according to how the game is refereed in Europe, South America and elsewhere)
Click to expand...
So, if you don’t mind me asking, what is your advice big cat? How do you referee handball at your level and should I do the same?
 
Bonref34 said:
Hi all.

Just joined forum.

I have been refereeing for quite a long time but took some time out whilst playing and have got back into it recently and really enjoying it.

There is one decision that I really hope does not come up in my games and that is Handball.. particularly in the penalty area. I have read and re read the laws and I understand what handball is but, as I am sure you are aware, I don’t think many people involved in the game (non referees) are aware of the law changes.

The reason I don’t particularly want it to occur is because the in the most recent handballs that have occurred in my games everyone has been expecting me to give decisions based on the old law, especially at youth level. I have been giving handballs based on the new laws but this causes a lot of agro. I gave a handball at the weekend in an U18 county fixture because everyone stopped and it was the expectation that I had to give it. IMO it was not handball!

Does anyone have any tips when it comes to making handball decisions and how to manage the expectations of players and coaches? Apart from the obvious.. ref to the laws and then explain ..

Thank you
Click to expand...
I think the rate of handball has decreased with theatest iteration.
FWIW I quite enjoyed the season or two having hard and fast rules but now there are three considerations as far as I am concerned.

1) was it deliberate?
2) did the handball precede a goal or goal scoring opportunity for the player whose hand/arm it touched?
3) was the player making their body bigger? If so, was that a justifiable consequence/position of the movement

I think there are still lots of refs out there doing wierd and wonderful stuff as I still here things like "he got an advantage from it" or full scale meltdown on awarding handball decisions but mostly I find myself turning handballs away.

The justifiable bit is the hardest and I use the history of the law to aid myself, considerations I am thinking about:

Distance
Ball velocity
Could the handler have reasonably got out of the way
Did the handler take a risk by having their hand/arm in that position
Position of the arm (above shoulder is almost never a justifiable position)

Probably a few more in there but they are the main things that spring to mind
 
Bonref34 said:
So, if you don’t mind me asking, what is your advice big cat? How do you referee handball at your level and should I do the same?
Click to expand...
In principal, I'm with @Russell Jones
I'd like to see the Law applied as per the book and I'm supportive of any Referee who sticks to the letter. But they're a dying breed
Generally speaking, give 'most' Handballs against attacking players. My threshold for penalising HB for defenders is significantly more lenient
AKA, 'safe refereeing'
Empathise with players... Tell them, 'you (the Referee) may not like it, the player may not like it, but it's tough luck sometimes'. Relax in your inner-self when making HB decisions. Detach yourself from it. It's one of the most subjective decisions in football, so accept the players opinion, but steadfastly trust your own judgement and move on. The players will feed off your attitude & confidence and give up remonstrating
 
See at grass roots, bigger picture, as long as you are consistent with your interpretation during the game, for right or wrong, giving, or not giving the same calls, thats all anybody can ask of you.


What you do not want is a mixed bag of handball calls then a suspect big pk, non pk call in the last min which is out of tandem with whats gone before
its this which will cause you much more problems than forensic decisions
 
That’s the point isn’t it… if I think back on a handball decision that I gave a few weeks back to an attacking player, there is absolutely no way I would have given it in the penalty area for a defender and then that is going to be causing me problems in explaining that one..
 
Bonref34 said:
That’s the point isn’t it… if I think back on a handball decision that I gave a few weeks back to an attacking player, there is absolutely no way I would have given it in the penalty area for a defender and then that is going to be causing me problems in explaining that one..
Click to expand...
If you were correct in penalising the attacking player, why not penalise a defender? It's not "safe refereeing" to ignore an offence.
 
Bonref34 said:
That’s the point isn’t it… if I think back on a handball decision that I gave a few weeks back to an attacking player, there is absolutely no way I would have given it in the penalty area for a defender and then that is going to be causing me problems in explaining that one..
Click to expand...
Safe Refereeing has it's place. Of course it does. However, excessively Safe Refereeing equates to dreadful officiating
Refereeing is an art not a science. It ain't enough to have knowledge. It takes deeper understanding of the game to apply the knowledge
 
I've always taken a cautious approach on handling, I have to be very sure it hit the arm and that the arm was in a position that makes it an offence. Outside of the top level we get one chance to make the decision, often with the ball travelling at real pace, it is easy to think you have been it hit the arm when it hasn't.
 
Anubis said:
See at grass roots, bigger picture, as long as you are consistent with your interpretation during the game, for right or wrong, giving, or not giving the same calls, thats all anybody can ask of you.


What you do not want is a mixed bag of handball calls then a suspect big pk, non pk call in the last min which is out of tandem with whats gone before
its this which will cause you much more problems than forensic decisions
Click to expand...
Agree that you need to be consistent for both teams, that's a bare minimum. What I'd say is that the revisions to the HB law are now (relatively) crystal clear and this is one part of law where referees don't need to be making it up or 'playing safe'. If they do that (and I accept that some still do, especially at grassroots) they are simply unnecessarily making life hard for their fellow officials who go out and do the job properly. If referees are eg giving HB just because the player gained an advantage , then this is fundamentally wrong in law and actively contributing to the multiple appeals we hear each and every game. @Big Cat , I understand, if not totally agree with, your safety first approach to getting a match to a uncontroversial outcome. But I'd urge you not to do it on handball (or any other law that's recently been changed ... at least give the new law a chance of succeeding!!)
 
Bonref34 said:
Hi all.

Just joined forum.

I have been refereeing for quite a long time but took some time out whilst playing and have got back into it recently and really enjoying it.

There is one decision that I really hope does not come up in my games and that is Handball.. particularly in the penalty area. I have read and re read the laws and I understand what handball is but, as I am sure you are aware, I don’t think many people involved in the game (non referees) are aware of the law changes.

The reason I don’t particularly want it to occur is because the in the most recent handballs that have occurred in my games everyone has been expecting me to give decisions based on the old law, especially at youth level. I have been giving handballs based on the new laws but this causes a lot of agro. I gave a handball at the weekend in an U18 county fixture because everyone stopped and it was the expectation that I had to give it. IMO it was not handball!

Does anyone have any tips when it comes to making handball decisions and how to manage the expectations of players and coaches? Apart from the obvious.. ref to the laws and then explain ..

Thank you
Click to expand...
When do the new laws become old laws 😁

I know you didn't ask for the obvious, but imagine if we all took the same approach and refereed to the old laws. Law change becomes pointless.

I think the handball law now is the best it has been for a long while and easiest to apply. Being consistent for all your games is relatively easy to achieve but consistency across the board is much harder and takes group effort.
 
It's interesting to me just how much the Handball law has gone in a big circle:

Pre 2019: Players constantly appealed for handballs which I turned down because they were 'not deliberate".

2019 - 2021 No-one really had a clue exactly what constituted Handball...except me (and not always me).

2022 Players constantly appealed for handballs. Now I can say "not deliberate" or "natural position"

The sum total of these Law changes is that I have one extra excuse to turn down appeals. Plus I have no excuses if the player immediately scores after handling.
 
Russell Jones said:
@Big Cat , I understand, if not totally agree with, your safety first approach to getting a match to a uncontroversial outcome. But I'd urge you not to do it on handball (or any other law that's recently been changed ... at least give the new law a chance of succeeding!!)
Click to expand...
Major problem however... The game is Refereed according to what we see on TV. That's the crux of it. Forget what's in the book
Whilst every incident is subtly different, VAR is gonna give HB the vast majority of the time when the hand/arm is away from the body, regardless of the player's overall movement and action. TV footy is there to make our lives difficult if not imposs

Anyway, 'safe refereeing' is built into the HB Law with the goal scoring caveat (and we've had several years of that being much more pronounced). Not so much about MC for me, just difficult to go against the grain of expectation
 
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