A&H

Handball Question

refeire said:
An example from my own game recently. A player taking a shot from about 5 yards outside the centre of the penalty area, about 4 defenders lined up in front.

One defender jumps as the shot is made and swings around in the air, the ball bounces off their arm.

I gave the free kick.

What would you guys have given as a sanction, if any?
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Need to see the play. If the arm is pressed tight to the body, probably a no call. If the arm is away from the body and he is jumping into the path of the ball and turning, then I think he deliberately put his arm there to take away space, and that's a handball offense (I still hate saying handball . . . ).
 
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socal lurker said:
Need to see the play. If the arm is pressed tight to the body, probably a no call. If the arm is away from the body and he is jumping into the path of the ball and turning, then I think he deliberately put his arm there to take away space, and that's a handball offense (I still hate saying handball . . . ).
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The arm was bending upwards as you'd have a broken arm in a sling, it wasn't pressed tightly on the body, the elbow maybe was touching the body but the rest of the forearm was at an angle to the stomach area.

My instant thought was football expects an offense here, I got no complaints from anyone.

The LOTG say it isn't an offense where the ball hitting the hand is a result of the hand being in a position that is natural for the movement being made. In this case I'd say if I were jumping my arm would never be pressed against my body, for balance I'd always have my arms sticking out to some degree. But it looks totally wrong not penalising someone who has their arms stuck out, jumping and blocking a shot with said arms.
 
refeire said:
The arm was bending upwards as you'd have a broken arm in a sling, it wasn't pressed tightly on the body, the elbow maybe was touching the body but the rest of the forearm was at an angle to the stomach area.

My instant thought was football expects an offense here, I got no complaints from anyone.

The LOTG say it isn't an offense where the ball hitting the hand is a result of the hand being in a position that is natural for the movement being made. In this case I'd say if I were jumping my arm would never be pressed against my body, for balance I'd always have my arms sticking out to some degree. But it looks totally wrong not penalising someone who has their arms stuck out, jumping and blocking a shot with said arms.
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Sounds like no offence based on what you've described.

The new handball law considerations are:

Deliberate - hard sell here at lower levels of football - the pros are good at disguising deliberate actions lower down not so much.

Making themselves unnaturally bigger - forearm across stomach, with elbow close to if not quite touching the side, doesn't shout to me that the player has made themselves unnaturally bigger, whilst it might look "unnatural" or awkward, it's almost like the player has done the opposite and tried to keep arms in a position where they haven't extended out.


The two comments I would make are:

1) Handball is a minefield - however you need to understand the law as written. You referenced their arm in your opinion as being in "an unnatural position" which is something that is not fully supported in law (almost the same as a referee saying they've sent a player off because they were "last man")
2) "What football expects" is not a substitute for applying law, it's really something to use when a situation arises that is not explicitly covered in the Laws. In this case, the Laws are clear and therefore "what football expects" should not be a consideration.

Edit: other consideration is whether the ball has hit the player when they are square on, or side on.
 
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@Justylove Thanks for that. All learning points are noted.

A reason I thought to give it was because at the point of contact she was perpendicular to the goal facing the touchline if that makes sense. So at that angle her forearm being raised out from her stomach area exacerbated the situation. It made it look to me it was a deliberate hope or attempt the ball would hit some part of the body to block the shot.

I suppose at the end of it all we'll never know what player's have running through their minds, as you say the pros can make the sneaky look innocent.
 
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refeire said:
The arm was bending upwards as you'd have a broken arm in a sling, it wasn't pressed tightly on the body, the elbow maybe was touching the body but the rest of the forearm was at an angle to the stomach area.

My instant thought was football expects an offense here, I got no complaints from anyone.

The LOTG say it isn't an offense where the ball hitting the hand is a result of the hand being in a position that is natural for the movement being made. In this case I'd say if I were jumping my arm would never be pressed against my body, for balance I'd always have my arms sticking out to some degree. But it looks totally wrong not penalising someone who has their arms stuck out, jumping and blocking a shot with said arms.
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I disagree with you (though that may be we are picturing slightly differently).

I think this is a play where the arms away from the body and jumping into the ball makes a deliberate handling call proper here.
 
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