A&H

Handball in PBox, ball already crossed line.

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mrdavid87

New Member
Hello.

This is my first post asking a question about my 5th game for U13s.

The match was 1-1 at the time, and the defender handled the ball into their own net. By the time I noticed and blew, the ball had entered the net with no intervention from any other player. I awarded the goal, should it have been a penalty kick?

I'm relatively new to being an official and this is a grey area for me.

Thank you.

David
 
The Referee Store
This is the extreme example of applying advantage--which is better for the attacking team: a PK or a goal? A goal, of course!

As long as you had not yet blown whistle, you were 100% correct to give the goal.
 
socal lurker said:
This is the extreme example of applying advantage--which is better for the attacking team: a PK or a goal? A goal, of course!

As long as you had not yet blown whistle, you were 100% correct to give the goal.
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Thank you. I ask as the defending teams coach was adamant a goal shouldn't have been allowed and that a penalty, reluctantly, is awarded. The match finished 5-1 to the attacking team so its irrelevant really but its been bugging me as I couldnt find a direct answer.
 
Unfortunately coaches and managers rarely have a complete and up to date knowledge of the LOTG and will almost always seek to exert some pressure on you to make a decision that favours their team. This pressure may not stem from a bad intent but is almost always partial to their interests. Well done for making the correct decision and for maintaining it in the face of questioning. As Russell says the only addition would have been a caution for the defender involved noting that it would have been a penalty and most probably a red card if the handling had been successful in preventing the goal from being scored.
 
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mrdavid87 said:
Thank you. I ask as the defending teams coach was adamant a goal shouldn't have been allowed and that a penalty, reluctantly, is awarded. The match finished 5-1 to the attacking team so its irrelevant really but its been bugging me as I couldnt find a direct answer.
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Well, I guess he'd be right if this was basketball instead of soccer . . . seriously, don't expect to learn anything about the Laws from coaches.
 
You were correct to award the goal. As mentioned a yellow card for the handball since they failed to stop the ball going into the net.

I've been in a game several years ago where a defender handled the ball near the goal line stopping a clear goal, the referee awarded a goal and cautioned the defender - IMO as a participant I would of much preferred a DOGSO red card and penalty kick!
 
Awarding the goal as per discussed above. On the caution, the OP says "the defender handled the ball into their own net' and nothing about the direction of the ball prior to that. So it is not necessarily a caution.

And a bit of advanced topic up for discussion. Assuming the ball was goal bound, a handball offence was committed by the defender and the ball ended up in the net. Is this necessarily a caution? The laws make the caution mandatory if the defender makes "an unsuccessful attempt to prevent a goal". Would this criteria always pass in a this scenario?
 
one said:
And a bit of advanced topic up for discussion. Assuming the ball was goal bound, a handball offence was committed by the defender and the ball ended up in the net. Is this necessarily a caution? The laws make the caution mandatory if the defender makes "an unsuccessful attempt to prevent a goal". Would this criteria always pass in a this scenario?
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In a professional game, I think the answer is that if would have been DOGSO, it is expected to be a caution if the goal is scored.

At lower levels, I think the language gives us discretion to only caution a cynical play. For me, at 14U and younger, I'd want a pretty cynical action before cautioning. Above that, I see a sliding scale up to from there to the professional level. YMMV.
 
Hello. Thank you all for your comments. I should have given a bit more context, but it was an U13 girls match, semi-final in the Area (local) Cup between local schools. The ball was struck by the attacker (not hard, it was a scuffed shot), hit the defenders hand when it was neither parallel to her body, nor in an obvious unnatural position an it went in, sort of half way, There was no malice or intent to stop the goal, it was simply accidental, but handball nonetheless. I decided to award the goal but if I had blown, it wouldn't have stood? Whistle was in my mouth and then it went in, THEN I blew (in the space of less than half a second. Regardless, I think I made the right call after hearing what you all had to say. At this level, I've not really cautioned players, only had a word with few about language and "getting rough" but that's football. Obviously I would caution if it was bad at this level, and red if something extreme.
 
mrdavid87 said:
Hello. Thank you all for your comments. I should have given a bit more context, but it was an U13 girls match, semi-final in the Area (local) Cup between local schools. The ball was struck by the attacker (not hard, it was a scuffed shot), hit the defenders hand when it was neither parallel to her body, nor in an obvious unnatural position an it went in, sort of half way, There was no malice or intent to stop the goal, it was simply accidental, but handball nonetheless. I decided to award the goal but if I had blown, it wouldn't have stood? Whistle was in my mouth and then it went in, THEN I blew (in the space of less than half a second. Regardless, I think I made the right call after hearing what you all had to say. At this level, I've not really cautioned players, only had a word with few about language and "getting rough" but that's football. Obviously I would caution if it was bad at this level, and red if something extreme.
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At Under 13 Level, I'd want the "handball" to be clear to penalise it. In this context, I'd want it to be obviously unnatural rather than the halfway house you describe above. More generally, the handball laws, as currently written, allow players the freedom to have their arms away from the body if justified by the body movement they are making ... running, jumping, kicking and turning all necessitate the arms being away from the body (to differing degrees). Personally, I'm a big fan of this wording and I think it allows us to justifiably penalise far fewer occasions when the ball strikes the hand / arm :)
 
Russell Jones said:
More generally, the handball laws, as currently written, allow players the freedom to have their arms away from the body if justified by the body movement they are making ... running, jumping, kicking and turning all necessitate the arms being away from the body (to differing degrees).
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This has always been true. As the Laws are written, it has never been an offense for a ball to hit an arm in a natural position. The challenge has been that different refs (and regions) have taken vies on what “deliberate“ means that have led to calls that the Laws never envisione.
 
mrdavid87 said:
Hello. Thank you all for your comments. I should have given a bit more context, but it was an U13 girls match, semi-final in the Area (local) Cup between local schools. The ball was struck by the attacker (not hard, it was a scuffed shot), hit the defenders hand when it was neither parallel to her body, nor in an obvious unnatural position an it went in, sort of half way, There was no malice or intent to stop the goal, it was simply accidental, but handball nonetheless. I decided to award the goal but if I had blown, it wouldn't have stood? Whistle was in my mouth and then it went in, THEN I blew (in the space of less than half a second. Regardless, I think I made the right call after hearing what you all had to say. At this level, I've not really cautioned players, only had a word with few about language and "getting rough" but that's football. Obviously I would caution if it was bad at this level, and red if something extreme.
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You have said "it was simply accidental" then added "handball nonetheless"
Confused me!
 
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