such is the society we live in...!
Grimsby player retrospective punishment
- Thread starter Ciley Myrus
- Start date
such is the society we live in...!
Never heard it used on/off the field and don't consider it as offensive as some terms. Here's where I recall it recently being used in sport:- https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/05/joe-marler-ban-fine-gypsy-boy-harlequins - £20k fine and 2-matches.
Quite a few other football cases pop up if you google, 6 & 8 match bans seems common.
Quite a few other football cases pop up if you google, 6 & 8 match bans seems common.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
From my small circle of messenger pals, two have said " never knew it till moved here", I,e England, So am putting this one down to regional intelligence, certainly not ignorance!
I am not saying not knowing what the term is is ignorant.
Not knowing the term, and suggesting the punishment be less severe, is ignorant.
It is a racist term; the traveller community are an ethnic group.
Kes
I'll Decide ...
No they're not.
Romany gypsies are considered to be, but "travellers" are nothing more than wandering nomads (normally Irish). Travellers are just a section of society.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
No, anything i have since googled says its not racial at all
Looks like we all need an equality course
WHAT DOES THE LAW SAY?No they're not.
Romany gypsies are considered to be, but "travellers" are nothing more than wandering nomads (normally Irish). Travellers are just a section of society.
Equality Act 2010
English Gypsies and Irish Travellers–Romany Gypsies and Irish Travellers are recognised as two distinct ethnic minority groups in law because they are recognised as members of communities with a shared history, culture and language stretching back over hundreds of years. As such they are granted the full protection of the Equality Act.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
And as referees we are to be aware of this?
we cant know every origin of every slur!
every game I do has ' a hippy bstrd". ( he will be called this because he does not have a number one all over'
red card?
Literally google is pikey a racist comment and you'll see there is plenty evidence is is a racist term.
Anyway bringing back on topic, 0layer will have been charge unde rule E3 (7)which is to do with discrimination.
Minimum ban is 6 games for racism.... Go figure....
Where have I said that?
Nowhere.
I dont know the ins and outs of every slur., but before posting on a forum suggesting the punishment doesn't fit the crime I would at least do a modicum of research 1st
afronaut81
Well-Known Member
Wow this is interesting.
Ok so I know the term and if it was said to me aggressively I would probably take offence so red card. Equally the same for a player on player incident.
Here's my twist. I've refereed ganes where foreign languages are used and the I cannot know every insult in those languages. So as a referee if I haven't come across it all I can really do is write it down and report it.
I don't see any other practical way of dealing with it. We're not going to Google it on the pitch!
Ok so I know the term and if it was said to me aggressively I would probably take offence so red card. Equally the same for a player on player incident.
Here's my twist. I've refereed ganes where foreign languages are used and the I cannot know every insult in those languages. So as a referee if I haven't come across it all I can really do is write it down and report it.
I don't see any other practical way of dealing with it. We're not going to Google it on the pitch!
Absolutely this. I am not, and haven't suggested we must know all slurs, their origin.
My argument is purely based on saying the punishment is harsh when in fact it is the minimum punishment available and when you actually look at the offence, language used, and appropriately categorise it then I think all things considered it is at worst fair, if not severe enough.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
I read one of your earlier posts as making me out to be not very clever, as I was u aware of the severity of the comments
Quoting that I might require an equality class.
indeed, am convinced if there was such a module avail here today, that term would not be in it, thus I would be none the wiser
So what appears to be a stonewall red card 100 miles down road in Newcastle, is ignored here. Which makes a mockery of the laws of the game,
Its common place in the professional game for players to insult each other, the defender does whatever it takes to rattle the opponent, to
A- put him off his game
B- get a reaction and the player sent off for lashing out
We dont live, and will never live, in a perfect society. Its not for us as referee to try and create one
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
You can't know every slur - especially when dealing with multiple languages.
But I am also surprised you haven't heard "pikey". But hey, not a big deal.
For me, because I know it is offensive, it's an easy red card.
Perhaps a more interesting question how you deal with words you can hear or recognise, that obviously antagonise, but you do not know the background or meaning so you cannot decide if it is worthy of a sanction... what do you do? Can a referee put in a report that says: "on 25 mins blue #21 called red #32 a "pikey". I did not sanction this at the time as I was not aware it was a prejudicial term until I returned home after the match."
Is that the correct way to proceed - what should we do?
But I am also surprised you haven't heard "pikey". But hey, not a big deal.
For me, because I know it is offensive, it's an easy red card.
Perhaps a more interesting question how you deal with words you can hear or recognise, that obviously antagonise, but you do not know the background or meaning so you cannot decide if it is worthy of a sanction... what do you do? Can a referee put in a report that says: "on 25 mins blue #21 called red #32 a "pikey". I did not sanction this at the time as I was not aware it was a prejudicial term until I returned home after the match."
Is that the correct way to proceed - what should we do?
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
i made reference to that, years ago, I was called ' a fcking neeb'
Am told afterwards it was a local term for, knob
Absolutely no way am I sending off or reporting that!
Suppose in todays society, anything can offend anyone
In England there is no requirement to know/understand the term, merely to acknowledge and report. Ignorance of the term is no excuse. If derogatory language and/or gestures are reported to you as referee, you should follow this protocol and let the relevant authorities deal with it.
Now you are putting words in my mouth that I haven't said. I have never made any references, nor inferred anything about your intelligence.
Perhaps I shouldn't have been so explicit and maybe should have said someone whom did not understand a term may be asked to attend an equality and diversity course.
We are not above the law, players who use discriminatory language and are found guilty are ways quoted as being require to attend a workshop of some kind, I'll call it equality and diversity as that's what we call it at work, (each individual FA might have their own terminologies) so it stands to reason that a referee who isnt able to identify or deal with discriminatory remarks appropriately would too. Please be aware I am not specifically talking about YOU I am talking in general terms.
Brian you have just managed to make my point in less sentences as I have posts on this one
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
I totally understand that. Maybe my initial posts could have been worded different
I was trying to create a picture of the situation where, in this case, me, is doing game, I am standing next to this insult, I hear it, clear as day blue 7 calls red 8 ' a pikey' and red 8 is going mad because am, other than the defusing etc, is in effect, doing nothing about it
Bigger picture, would you then be classing it as " clear and obvious error" " missed red card" and thus taking me to max 7.9 and so on....
I do feel this one, as prev posted, is regional and as confirmed by one poster, a game in Glasgow has ( sadly) religious undertones, which, you cannot red card every time you hear something
Teams are classed as Irish ( replace for naughty words) this that and the next thing for merely having a flash of green on their sock!
it all comes down to if an allegation is made
if someone says something that you dont understand (or hear), you dont do anything about it unless someone makes a complaint to you. the second any allegation is made, even if you disagree that it is discriminatory, you need to be reporting it
if someone says something that you dont understand (or hear), you dont do anything about it unless someone makes a complaint to you. the second any allegation is made, even if you disagree that it is discriminatory, you need to be reporting it