The Ref Stop

Good quiz q

WilliamD

WilliamD

Well-Known Member
Level 4 Referee
From areferee.com

“The attacking team correctly takes a throw-in, and the defending goalkeeper tries to catch the ball. The goalkeeper does not touch the ball, and a team-mate of the goalkeeper punches the ball over the crossbar. What decision does the referee make?”
 
The Ref Stop
Sorry if am jumping in but am heading out!!

Erm, def penalty
I would yellow card for handball but can understand no card.
 
Yep, penalty for intentional handling. No sanctions as it has prevented neither a promising attack or an OGSO even if it was going in as a goal can't be scored directly from a throw-in.
 
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Am going YC because as we know, a promising attack, is not the carbon copy of, chance to score a goal. Its still an attack on goal and its still been interfered with.

Also, it would kinda be expected

it does not feel right to let that go without a sanction

that said, no card is perfectly justifed ( i think !)
 
I think the yellow card would be for unsporting behaviour.
That being said, I think if the goalkeeper keeps out a bad back pass to him with his hands, I think it is no card a.t.m, so that doesn't make much sense.
 
This is a penalty. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ciley Myrus said:
Sorry if am jumping in but am heading out!!

Erm, def penalty
I would yellow card for handball but can understand no card.
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I know you'd normally explain the card a bit better bit I figured I'd jump in on that phrasing for the benefit of some of the newer members on here, hope you don't mind.

'yellow card for handball' is not how it should be described (and was only done so here being in a rush) - 'handball' is only a card in certain circumstances - and given that when to caution for handball is sorely misunderstood amongst referees, it just perpetuates the myth that 'blatant handling' warrants a card. No matter how blatant or intentional the handling is, it still only warrants a card in certain cases. Interfering with or stopping a promising attack, an unsuccessful attempt to prevent a goal, or attempting to score a goal.

The LOTG doesn't go on to say that the intent to score goal is sufficient even if a goal can't be scored. It leaves it as an unsuccessful attempt to prevent a goal. Given there's no possible goal anyway, i don't see that it fits.


There are specific circumstances in the law which warrant a card for handling. Given that the LOTG states 'handles the ball to interfere with or stop a promising attack', there's no attack here, thus no caution.

halter42 said:
I think the yellow card would be for unsporting behaviour.
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The LOTg provices guidance on what constitutes unsporting behaviour. 'Stopping a promising attack' actually falls under unsporting behaviour. Make sure you're familiar with the caution offences as listed in law 12.
 
IFAB recently tweaked SPA guidelines for handling to get away from the overuse of cards on handling. This is a grossly stupid play, not an unsporting one. We don’t need to look for excuses to throw cards around. A PK here is fully adequate punishment.
 
@Ciley Myrus hit on the reason I posted this. I think most of us experienced Referees would lean towards no caution here but I think players, managers, and spectators would expected a card - in fact some would probably expect RED and we'd have to explain it. Some will think that it feels like there should be a caution but as @CapnBloodbeard says it's pretty damn hard to justify technically.

For what it's worth areferee.com says the right answer is pen AND CAUTION for unsporting behaviour. I think it would be very harsh to mark it incorrect in an exam if you said pen and no caution.
 
If anyone wishes to applaud, I will of course be grateful.

Of course someone will say whatever site it is , is wrong.

As I preach so often, knowing the laws is one thing. Knowing how and when to apply them, is another thing altogether.
 
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Unless there is an attacker anywhere close by a caution is at best very harsh. All you can really caution for is preventing a promising attack, but the defender's action has in effect turned a goal kick into a penalty, so has done exactly the opposite. A caution just isn't required, and arguably is plain wrong.
 
The YC is not for handball though....

Its unsporting behaviour.

Someone punching the ball over the bar, is, not whats expected in a game


Unless you are the gk, need to add that in before someone clever does


The defender would expect a card.
Everybody would expect a card

So give them a card.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
The YC is not for handball though....

Its unsporting behaviour.
.
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That makes no sense.

YC for handball (SPA, attempting to stop/score a goal) falls under USB. So, you're talked yourself in a circle.

As for 'players expect it' - that's 22 players and a bunch of spectators who have never read the law.

There's a time and a place for abiding by what's expected, but ultimately a referee needs to have the courage to make the right decision even if they're the only person who knows its right.

There are plenty of obscure scenarios where the law seems to defy common sense.
 
As an assessor. if I see this in a game I'd be asking why did you caution? If I am give a reason as DOGSO or SPA then it's marked down for error in law. If the referee understands it's not DOGSO or SPA but I am told in their opinion it is still an unsporting act then I'd be giving my opposing opinion and recommend against a yellow. One acceptable reason they could be giving me is that even if it was not DOGSO, in the player's mind they did it to deny an OGSO and that is considered unsporting but player's/football expecting it is not one of them.

As for the answer for it in a quiz, it's a LOTG quiz and the laws are very clear for no yellow here and any answer giving a yellow based on the text in law is wrong.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
That makes no sense.

YC for handball (SPA, attempting to stop/score a goal) falls under USB. So, you're talked yourself in a circle.

As for 'players expect it' - that's 22 players and a bunch of spectators who have never read the law.

There's a time and a place for abiding by what's expected, but ultimately a referee needs to have the courage to make the right decision even if they're the only person who knows its right.

There are plenty of obscure scenarios where the law seems to defy common sense.
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no circle here, am giving a yellow and, as I said at start, I am fine with no yellow too
Am I wrong? Are you wrong? Will I do what I want on my game, as will you? Indeed
No prizes for being only person to be right, not just in football, but really, in life in general
1> know the laws
2> know what to do with them

2 diff things.

For some folk, even a gospel response from Mr E is not enough. They still know better! Or at least, like to type like they do!!
Indeed some folk type so much on here its amazing they find time to go out onto the pitch!!!!!
 
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Ciley Myrus said:
no circle here, am giving a yellow and, as I said at start, I am fine with no yellow too
Am I wrong? Are you wrong? Will I do what I want on my game, as will you? Indeed
No prizes for being only person to be right, not just in football, but really, in life in general
1> know the laws
2> know what to do with them

2 diff things.

For some folk, even a gospel response from Mr E is not enough. They still know better! Or at least, like to type like they do!!
Indeed some folk type so much on here its amazing they find time to go out onto the pitch!!!!!
Click to expand...
From someone who has posted nearly 5,000 times on here in less than year?!? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I think you're (at best!) half right @Ciley Myrus . Given the relative 'catch all' that is Unsporting Behaviour, it's normally possible to find a justification for giving a yellow card for almost any act that falls outside the realm of normal, typical player behaviour. That said, the laws for when handball should be cautioned are very, very specific .. and the OP meets none of them. So what would be the purpose and the positives of giving a card in this scenario? Because a fairly significant negative would be strongly perpetuating the widely help myth that any 'blatant' handball is a mandatory card ... a topic which has led to me needing to have 'words' with occupants of technical areas twice this season already
 
Russell Jones said:
From someone who has posted nearly 5,000 times on here in less than year?!? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I think you're (at best!) half right @Ciley Myrus . Given the relative 'catch all' that is Unsporting Behaviour, it's normally possible to find a justification for giving a yellow card for almost any act that falls outside the realm of normal, typical player behaviour. That said, the laws for when handball should be cautioned are very, very specific .. and the OP meets none of them. So what would be the purpose and the positives of giving a card in this scenario? Because a fairly significant negative would be strongly perpetuating the widely help myth that any 'blatant' handball is a mandatory card ... a topic which has led to me needing to have 'words' with occupants of technical areas twice this season already
Click to expand...
I've actually had a disagreement with a ref on the very subject. Over ruled me on a handball. Said it was because he would of had to caution and would be harsh. Both ref and other AR were not having it that deliberate handball was not mandatory a caution, despite my explaining that handball must be deliberate to be penalised so are they cautioning every handball?
This wasn't a blatant, and I could accept a no handball, but I wasn't happy with the reasoning given.
 
Russell Jones said:
From someone who has posted nearly 5,000 times on here in less than year?!? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I think you're (at best!) half right @Ciley Myrus . Given the relative 'catch all' that is Unsporting Behaviour, it's normally possible to find a justification for giving a yellow card for almost any act that falls outside the realm of normal, typical player behaviour. That said, the laws for when handball should be cautioned are very, very specific .. and the OP meets none of them. So what would be the purpose and the positives of giving a card in this scenario? Because a fairly significant negative would be strongly perpetuating the widely help myth that any 'blatant' handball is a mandatory card ... a topic which has led to me needing to have 'words' with occupants of technical areas twice this season already
Click to expand...


The caution is not a handball offence.
As already pointed out, its usb
 
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