A&H

Goalkeepers and kickoffs post goals

206eddy

206eddy

Active Member
So this happened during a (thoroughly entertaining) FA Cup game that I went along to watch yesterday as I'm currently injured and cannot referee.

Home team (red) had just scored. During the celebrations home 'keeper goes over to the touch line and has something done with his socks. The male on touchline is goalkeeping coach and the female the club physio so from the video I assume no treatment was administered. Then once reds are all back in their half, the game restarts....


It certainly caused a bit of debate from fans and home club officials at the time, although home went on to win 5-4 (after being 3-0 and 4-1 up at various points)

Thoughts or comments from other officials?
 
The Referee Store
My opinion is this is poor management from the referee. I don't know why he doesn't just hold the whistle until the keeper is back in his area, it's just asking for all sorts of trouble.
 
Whilst all completely legal, this is poor from almost everyone. The Red GK could just have gone down in his area and asked for treatment. The AR involved could have seen the possibility of an issue and ensured he took his time to get into position (plus buzzing the referee to ensure he was aware of something unusual). The referee could, as you say, have found a reason to slightly delay his whistle (plus it almost looks like he blows because they take the kick so he also still has the option to call back play). And any of the other red players could have remained in the other half until the keeper was back in place. Will be interesting to read the views of the two clubs on their social media!
 
Hmmmm. Which goes first, signal to kick off or the kick off. I can't feel but think he fell into the green teams trap to rush him to signal. I've seen before at youth or grassroots but never at a level this high.

Looks like someone on the promotion path. Hope this doesn't set him back too far.
 
one said:
Hmmmm. Which goes first, signal to kick off or the kick off. I can't feel but think he fell into the green teams trap to rush him to signal. I've seen before at youth or grassroots but never at a level this high.

Looks like someone on the promotion path. Hope this doesn't set him back too far.
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He's a high quality Level 3 referee in England who I've assisted in the past. Looking at MOAS, he was not Observed on this game so potentially just one unhelpful Club Mark to deal with ... no drama :)
 
Russell Jones said:
He's a high quality Level 3 referee in England who I've assisted in the past. Looking at MOAS, he was not Observed on this game so potentially just one unhelpful Club Mark to deal with ... no drama :)
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Incidents like this do find their way around to powers that be who make promotion decisions. Right or wrong they play a role in decision making when choosing one person over another when most other things are equal.
 
Russell Jones said:
He's a high quality Level 3 referee in England who I've assisted in the past. Looking at MOAS, he was not Observed on this game so potentially just one unhelpful Club Mark to deal with ... no drama :)
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Still, anything unexpected like this amounts to a very easy mistake to make
Banana skins awaiting referees around every corner 🍌
 
Common sense suggests you don't allow the game to restart in this situation - indeed, it seems more like it's the team who restarts rather than the referee and he just goes along with it. Poor from the officials.
 
Within the laws... no point blaming the ref for players who aren’t that attentive - all it took was one red player to step into the half prior to kick off.
 
Nothing wrong in law, but why would you get yourself into that mess? As others have said, the keeper has tried to be helpful by going for treatment when a goal has been scored rather than just falling over in his area and calling for it.

@Russell Jones says that no real damage as only potentially one poor club mark, but I know from experience that one poor club mark at L3 can send you plummeting hundreds of places down the merit table. I really just don't see why anyone would allow that situation.
 
RustyRef said:
Nothing wrong in law, but why would you get yourself into that mess? As others have said, the keeper has tried to be helpful by going for treatment when a goal has been scored rather than just falling over in his area and calling for it.

@Russell Jones says that no real damage as only potentially one poor club mark, but I know from experience that one poor club mark at L3 can send you plummeting hundreds of places down the merit table. I really just don't see why anyone would allow that situation.
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Club Mark may have been rescued by the favourable result
 
RustyRef said:
@Russell Jones says that no real damage as only potentially one poor club mark, but I know from experience that one poor club mark at L3 can send you plummeting hundreds of places down the merit table. I really just don't see why anyone would allow that situation.
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Rusty, very rare that I disagree with you. However, in a world where an average L3 will get around 50 Club Marks in a season and Club Marks are only given half the weighting of Observer marks, one poor mark just can't impact to the degree you suggest ... especially given that there's only 300 officials in that merit table in any case!

Where we can 100% agree, is that the situation was avoidable, unnecessary and definitely not to be recommended!!
 
Russell Jones said:
Rusty, very rare that I disagree with you. However, in a world where an average L3 will get around 50 Club Marks in a season and Club Marks are only given half the weighting of Observer marks, one poor mark just can't impact to the degree you suggest ... especially given that there's only 300 officials in that merit table in any case!

Where we can 100% agree, is that the situation was avoidable, unnecessary and definitely not to be recommended!!
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Trust me, it can make a massive difference. I dropped over a hundred places off the back of one game, and I know it was that game as a) I was told what marks I got in it and b) that was the only game I refereed in that period due to injury problems.

Let's say you've had 20 marks at an average of 75, you then get a disastrously low mark (and some clubs are known to mark as low as zero) and you are dropping almost 4 marks on your average. Referees are very tightly bunched at L3 both for observer and club marks, and that happening will see you absolutely plummet. Although in fairness the 100+ places I am referring to was just on the club mark merit table and not the combined one, but it still made a massive dent on the latter.
 
A terrible error from the referee. We are all a momentary lapse in concentration and a bit of bad luck from making a monumental balls up of it.

Not that it should ever come to this, but in this scenario could the referee blow up before the ball hits the back of the net and make them kick off again, citing the spirit of the game?
 
Ben448844 said:
A terrible error from the referee. We are all a momentary lapse in concentration and a bit of bad luck from making a monumental balls up of it.

Not that it should ever come to this, but in this scenario could the referee blow up before the ball hits the back of the net and make them kick off again, citing the spirit of the game?
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Of course he could blow the whistle--it's his whistle and he can blow it. But if he was going to start blowing his whistle just because he felt like it, there is no basis for re-doing the kick off. The restart for a whistle with no other restart is a DB. Some mistakes you're stuck with--at least when you get the level you can't get away with MSU* officiating.

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*Making Sh.., er, "Stuff" Up
 
socal lurker said:
Of course he could blow the whistle--it's his whistle and he can blow it. But if he was going to start blowing his whistle just because he felt like it, there is no basis for re-doing the kick off. The restart for a whistle with no other restart is a DB. Some mistakes you're stuck with--at least when you get the level you can't get away with MSU* officiating.

____________
*Making Sh.., er, "Stuff" Up
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Not in this case though. They kicked off slightly before the signal so the restart had to be retaken.
 
RustyRef said:
Trust me, it can make a massive difference. I dropped over a hundred places off the back of one game, and I know it was that game as a) I was told what marks I got in it and b) that was the only game I refereed in that period due to injury problems.

Let's say you've had 20 marks at an average of 75, you then get a disastrously low mark (and some clubs are known to mark as low as zero) and you are dropping almost 4 marks on your average. Referees are very tightly bunched at L3 both for observer and club marks, and that happening will see you absolutely plummet. Although in fairness the 100+ places I am referring to was just on the club mark merit table and not the combined one, but it still made a massive dent on the latter.
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Mathematically, 'Median' is far more statistically accurate than 'Mean' for this type of thing, although the two are more closely aligned... the bigger the statistical sample
 
one said:
Not in this case though. They kicked off slightly before the signal so the restart had to be retaken.
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I agree.

Not that I'll ever referee at that level but IF I did, even at that level, I'd be giving another toot of the whistle straight away and bringing it back with something like: "Okay guys, kick-off is on my whistle - not the other way around - and you can see their GK is still out of position - back we come please". :cool:
 
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