The Ref Stop

Goalie backpass - "Can I pick it up ref or is it a backpass?"

Brian Hamilton said:
I understand the reason for your decision and it is due to the emphasis in different parts of the sentence. As long as you apply consistently, then there shouldn't be a problem.
Click to expand...

Problem is the "to him" part
In french the translation gives "touches the ball with his hands after it has been deliberately kicked by a team-mate" which means you don't have to care for the direction of the ball, as long as the player kicked it deliberately and it wasn't just an unfortunate block
And "my textbook" is the FFF textbooks following the FIFA LOTG with some extended example situations. And the tackle thing is in the textbook, and the correct answer given is IDFK
 
The Ref Stop
I would like to clarify this situation...Cue Mr Brian Hamilton(Assessor/Tutor) should a referee tell a keeper if he could pick the ball up if he wasn't sure of a back pass... personally i wouldn't.... not my place to tell any keeper how to do his job
 
Yacinho said:
Problem is the "to him" part
In french the translation gives "touches the ball with his hands after it has been deliberately kicked by a team-mate"
And "my textbook" is the FFF textbooks following the FIFA LOTG with some extended example situations. And the tackle thing is in the textbook, and the correct answer given is IDFK
Click to expand...

If that's what your federation wants then that's what you have to do. Players will expect it in France I guess? Or just clear every ball!
 
I had a similar question of 'play direction' in today's game.

Blue keeper starts the game with a knock, can barely walk in truth. Makes it through the first half, first few minutes of second goes down as he's about to take a kick. Manages to kick the ball out for a throw.

Substitute keeper comes on, game about to recommence when blue asks if I'm going to tell them to give the ball back.

I said towards red player with ball 'I can't do that, but I would expect them to do so'.

What's the view on this situation?
 
Jacko said:
If that's what your federation wants then that's what you have to do. Players will expect it in France I guess? Or just clear every ball!
Click to expand...

Yes no doubts about that, but when you look at the FIFA LOTG on the internet in english then in french, that "to him" precision don't appear in the second one
Seems very important though as it changes the understanding of the whole sentence..
 
mikedn said:
I would like to clarify this situation...Cue Mr Brian Hamilton(Assessor/Tutor) should a referee tell a keeper if he could pick the ball up if he wasn't sure of a back pass... personally i wouldn't.... not my place to tell any keeper how to do his job
Click to expand...

Look at my previous comment, not replying to the keeper when you have the opportunity to will only harm your game.

I had my first one in 2 years last weekend keeper asked as he picked up the ball I didn't have a chance to reply. IDFK goal. 5 mins later similar and I shout yes you can pick it up he clears it for a throw. I shout I haven't got time to coach you and referee if your under pressure just clear it! if your not under pressure and ask I'll let you know. "Thanks ref".
 
Yacinho said:
Yes no doubts about that, but when you look at the FIFA LOTG on the internet in english then in french, that "to him" precision don't appear in the second one
Seems very important though as it changes the understanding of the whole sentence..
Click to expand...
And even in English it is not clear. The USSF follow the same interpretation as the French FA...
 
i communicate with players and keepers when appropriate.... but i don't tell them how to play...if the keeper doesn't know if it is/was back pass then not my call ... haven't yet come across this scenairio but i know what my action will be.
 
McTavish said:
And even in English it is not clear. The USSF follow the same interpretation as the French FA...
Click to expand...

Honestly I hardly doubt that FFF and USSF would put in the textbooks a precise case without clarifying it before with FIFA
Do you in UK have something official which says PRECISELY that in the case of a tackle, the goal can pick it up ?
 
mikedn said:
I would like to clarify this situation...Cue Mr Brian Hamilton(Assessor/Tutor) should a referee tell a keeper if he could pick the ball up if he wasn't sure of a back pass... personally i wouldn't.... not my place to tell any keeper how to do his job
Click to expand...
Looking at this from a match control perspective and also adhering to the principle of no surprises, you should be using everything to help you bring the game to a safe conclusion where they are talking about the action, not your decisions.

In other words, it does no harm to do so...
 
I often shout to the keeper whether he can/can't pick it up, if I have chance. Today I would say I called it about 3/4 times. No one ever has a problem with it because they know where I stand. I don't get the whole "it's not my job" claim because a "back pass" situation is very much down to individual interpretation as we have seen from our French colleague and how there interpretation is very much different to that of most english referees.
If I can help to communicate what's going on in my head before I have to make a decision I will do for the sake of clarity.
As Brian has said,no surprises
I also give warnings like "hands down" "no pushing" etc. does anyone disagree with that?
 
DaveMac said:
Personally I wouldnt be telling any player what they can and cant do, especially with something like a backpass. Or is this something we should be encouraged to do to proactively manage the game.
Click to expand...
Big difference between proactively telling somebody and answering a question. Aboslutely no reason not to answer a question like that, IMO. Very, very bad look for a referee.
 
The translations to other languages are for convenience only. FIFA makes this very clear, on the third page of the 2014/15 book:
On behalf of the International Football Association Board, FIFA publishes the Laws of the Game in English, French, German and Spanish. If there is any divergence in the wording, the English text is authoritative.
Click to expand...
As for management, if the goalkeeper asks whether it's a pass-back and has time to wait for an answer, then give them one quickly. "Tackle, no pass!" or "Passed, no hands!" are easy to say, and make it very clear to everybody what your decision is. A player that ignores the latter cannot be surprised if they receive an IFK after the timely warning.
I've given plenty of verbal checks for players not to touch a ball after the whistle goes against them, and in other sports for plenty of things that would see them seriously penalised or carded. It makes much more sense to keep a player on the field and a bit miffed, than bloody outraged and walking off.
 
Yacinho said:
Honestly I hardly doubt that FFF and USSF would put in the textbooks a precise case without clarifying it before with FIFA
Do you in UK have something official which says PRECISELY that in the case of a tackle, the goal can pick it up ?
Click to expand...
The laws follow a consistent principle of "whatever is not denied, is allowed". The goalkeeper cannot pick up a ball that is a) deliberately b) kicked c) to d) him. It says nothing about deliberately kicked to someone else, or accidentally kicked to him, or deliberately played by something except the foot to him.
Is the tackle all of those four things? No. It may be deliberate, and it may be kicked, but unless you are certain it was also aimed, and intended specifically at the goalkeeper, you're not meeting the conditions of the offence.
As for USA sports organisations making up things and changing rules to suit themselves, yeah, all the time. They're not exactly a good model for consistency with international rule interpretations.
 
Brian Hamilton said:
Looking at this from a match control perspective and also adhering to the principle of no surprises, you should be using everything to help you bring the game to a safe conclusion where they are talking about the action, not your decisions.

In other words, it does no harm to do so...
Click to expand...
Duly noted for future consideration
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top