A&H

Goal Nets

I don't post on this site much, but enjoy reading all the different opinions. It seems to me that the attacks on Padfoot here for being "black and white" are symptomatic of a worrying stream of opinion that constantly surfaces here. People ignore mandatory cautions for dissent or refuse to send off for DOGSO in the name of "Law 18" or "game control". .
There are many areas in the game where there can be a contrast between a 'common sense' approach and a 'by the book' approach (though I think many of the 'common sense' approaches advocated are actually anything but!). Any good referee knows how and where the laws can be bent - but of course, there's disagreement over that. In some instance Padfoot has seemed a little less willing to bend the laws than others, but I know plenty of very capable referees that are more of a stickler for the laws myself - and many that are less so. Padfoot is quite firm that his way is the right way, so there's been a bit of butting heads but outside of one thread, nothing too major.
Personally, while I wouldn't agree with some of Padfoot's approaches, I would much prefer his approach over some of the 'to hell with the laws, I'm going to do what I like' approaches a few others on here routinely advocate. And I've disagreed with others as well on how far to bend the laws.

This thread raises a problematic situation. If you're going to allow the goal, you're not bending the laws - you're breaking them.
Why are we allowing a match to begin with an obstruction over part of the goal? We all know something like this is possible - a soft ball with little forward momentum would make it into goal by its own but can be stopped by the net. What do we do? What can teams do with goals like this? Ropes can pull the top of the net back from the bar. Perhaps we shouldn't be starting the match in the first place if this obstruction is in place. We wouldn't allow a match with a tree branch in front of goal, would we?

The LOTG don't explicitly forbid this net problem, but common sense would dictate we address the problem before it's a problem. Any 'common sense' answer on here is actually just an 'easiest way out of the problem we've allowed to occur'.

And it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. But for those advocating a goal based on the 'you know it was going in the goal' argument (which I appreciate from a 'fairness' perspective), would you take the same approach if it struck the keeper's water bottle and stopped (in fact, one poster on here said that would be different - why??)? What about if a spectator came on and stopped the ball on the line? Or it burst as a striker kicked it into an open net (and you could hear it burst as he took the kick)? What's the difference? Why approach these differently?

Somebody usually comes back with 'but you can just say you thought it went in the goal and how would anybody know different?' - just because you can get away with a lie doesn't actually answer the question here, so please, don't bother.
 
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The Referee Store
Why are we allowing a match to begin with an obstruction over part of the goal? .
Exactly this (what I was waiting for padfoot to add but you beat him to it). Being aware of potential problems which you will discover during your pre match checks. :)
 
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Some grass roots clubs cant help it though. For example, our pitch is in a public park. The goals are just two uprights and a crossbar, so the net has to be pegged with no chance of it forming a rectangular-prism shape (if you get me). It's a triangle. We also can't rope the nets up because there's nothing to attach the rope to behind the goals. It's a tough place for clubs these days because there's just no money in grassroots football, the majority of clubs have to lease their pitch(s) off of councils etc, and we all know what they are like for handing out dosh (although I managed to negotiate £20k last night for pitch and facility improvements).

I think the bottom lines is, you have to be absolutely certain in your mind that the whole ball has crossed the line. None of this "if that net was pegged differently it would have. If that bottle weren't there it would have". You have to be 100% sure. If you have doubts, you're made aware of these when your brain processes what it's just witnessed "Has the ball crossed the line"... It's either yes, maybe or no.... Yes it has... Goal. Not it hasn't... No goal... Maybe it did, I don't know, Lino help me pleaseeee... No goal! You can't make a decsion based on maybes and uncertainty, you have to be sure...

It could have been avoided by being picky about the nets on the inspection, which leads me into a previous forum post about leaving plenty of time for pitch inspections as this sort of thing should be rectified... And that rectification usually takes time

N.B. Lino = Assistant :rolleyes:
 
Good points.
Having said all that, surely even roping it to the ground some distance behind the goal would help lift the net back a little. The clubs could hammer a picket into the ground, or put a number of different objects behind the goal to give it some height.
 
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For you to lift the net up, you need a point to tie it to higher than the part of the net you want lifting up (If you get what I mean). You can't peg a net lower down to lift it up :oops: Some clubs do allow you to erect poles up behind the posts... Our council says no, insurance purposes
 
But it's not really that much of a debate is it?

It's a basic fundamental of the game....either it crossed the line or it didn't. No grey area to be found.

Except there is ....you forgot "in the opinion of the referee" - been quite a few high profile cases where referee was shown to be 100% wrong in a goal decision - hence video technology. Without it if referee not 100% sure it HAS crossed the line, has to be no goal.

So can easily be wrong decision for the right reason - not so black & white after all!;)
 
Except there is ....you forgot "in the opinion of the referee" - been quite a few high profile cases where referee was shown to be 100% wrong in a goal decision - hence video technology. Without it if referee not 100% sure it HAS crossed the line, has to be no goal.

So can easily be wrong decision for the right reason - not so black & white after all!;)

Ah right....so now you're saying that you don't need to see the ball crossing the line in order to award a goal?
You're happy with taking a guess at it......maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but hey who cares?
 
Ah right....so now you're saying that you don't need to see the ball crossing the line in order to award a goal?
You're happy with taking a guess at it......maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but hey who cares?

Don't want to appear rude but did you read my post?

"Referee has to be 100% sure it has crossed the line" is what I said, how do you get from that to "happy taking a guess at it" and "saying you don't need to see the ball crossing the line to award a goal" That's the complete opposite of what I said!:mad:

Baffling :confused:
 
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Good points.
Having said all that, surely even roping it to the ground some distance behind the goal would help lift the net back a little. The clubs could hammer a picket into the ground, or put a number of different objects behind the goal to give it some height.

Also please add to this particular scenario that directly behind one goal was another pitch - touch line was about 10 yards behind ours. This pitch was also being played on.

Would anybody seriously call a game off at parks level for something like this??

If so think you need to give your head a wobble...
 
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Don't want to appear rude but did you read my post?

"Referee has to be 100% sure it has crossed the line" is what I said, how do you get from that to "happy taking a guess at it" and "saying you don't need to see the ball crossing the line to award a goal" That's the complete opposite of what I said!:mad:

Baffling :confused:

Indeed baffling!

I did read it......but upon re-reading it, it seems to say something completely different to how I read it the first time!

Apologies for getting my wires crossed.....I blame it on working nights and reading the forum too soon after waking up!
 
Also please add to this particular scenario that directly behind one goal was another pitch - touch line was about 10 yards behind ours. This pitch was also being played on.

Would anybody seriously call a game off at parks level for something like this??

If so think you need to give your head a wobble...

Well that changes it....
It's a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' scenario. If there's literally nothing that can be done, the alternative is no nets - obviously this is the better option. But there is still an inherent problem with beginning the match with an obstruction across the goal.
 
Indeed baffling!

I did read it......but upon re-reading it, it seems to say something completely different to how I read it the first time!

Apologies for getting my wires crossed.....I blame it on working nights and reading the forum too soon after waking up!

No worries, we've all done that.........I have anyway!
 
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