RefSix

Friendly Grealishimulation

#22
Problem is he blew his whistle before the ball hit the net so could not give a goal.
Spot on. His biggest mistake was how soon he blew the whistle, not the awful call for "simulation". Not even VAR could save him after that. It wasnt a penalty, it certainly wasnt a dive. Would of been a goal had Friend followed VAR protocol and delayed the whistle.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#23
This doesn't fit with the concept of an early whistle. KF was not playing an advantage. Delaying the flag is one thing, but delaying the whistle so that VAR can referee the game retrospectively is another (even though it seems to be happening in the PA!)
 

Mada

New Member
#24
Playing devil's advocate here. Can it be considered a dive if Grealish hasn't appealed for anything? He went down in an unusual way but I wonder if he knew the tackle was coming and rode it out as he was confident he could get the pass away? It was a fantastic pass and it looks to me like he actually meant to do that rather than it being a consequence of him trying to deceive the referee.

I can't remember any other occasion where a player would be booked for diving when they haven't appeared for a foul/penalty. If the ball hadn't fallen to the attacker and he had got up and protested for a penalty then I think a yellow card would have been merited.
 

spuddy1878

RefChat Addict
#25
He was clearly pushed in the back on the edge of the box think thats obvious, he was still off balance for me when he got towards Cahill, who knows 100% if there was contact but it doesn't have to be free kick or no free kick and a dive.
 
#26
This doesn't fit with the concept of an early whistle. KF was not playing an advantage. Delaying the flag is one thing, but delaying the whistle so that VAR can referee the game retrospectively is another (even though it seems to be happening in the PA!)
But other than saving face and their egos, what are premier league referees and the PGMOL achieving by not using what could be a very powerful tool? On your own as a referee it is hard. When you have 6 officials appointed to a match they emphasise you are a team. Why not use the full capabilities of the team? I didnt even realise VAR in England had pitchside screens. The reason is in 40 Premier League games so far they have not been used once! The instruction was use sparringly but it appears for the sake of time they are scared of using them!

I agree there are times a quick whistle is 100% needed. But in this case he made the pass and they were through on goal. There was no danger of another tackle causing an additional interference or consideration for safety. Why not delay the whistle there? Why not have the discussion with VAR saying theres suspected simulation, then if necessary review it yourself again so it is your decision. Fairness wins and the referee remains somewhat credible.

Theres problems with how VAR is being utilised and I understand there will be teething problems so I suspect these will iron out. Not for a second do I believe VAR was the problem for that goal being disallowed. Everyone is talking about VAR but that is taking away much needed scutiny of referees. Why not hold them account? The referee made a mistake in blowing too soon and to make it worse for an incorrect decision. VAR could not help him from that moment on. Instead of people saying why isnt VAR fixing this obvious error, we should still be asking why a premier league referee got both the decision and process so wrong?!
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#27
Why not have the discussion with VAR saying theres suspected simulation, then if necessary review it yourself again so it is your decision
I'm no expert as I haven't studied the protocol (because it ain't been adhered to from day 1), but we're heading towards the VAR being in charge.
KF delaying the whistle in this instance is essentially leaving it to VAR. The main skill of being a top-flight AR has been taken away from them; delaying the whistle in this way is heading towards the same outcome for top flight refs
I don't think for a moment that we're experiencing teething issues. Some would argue that VAR is now fairly mature. By bulldozering the VAR in as a massive change, we're all discovering huge implications. The VAR vehicle's wheels are pouring out blue smoke and the PGMOL are desperately holding onto the handbrake because IFAB gave nobody a chance to pass their driving test. One change at a time and see where it breaks, but no... IFAB thought otherwise. I should emphasise, I'm absolutely not anti-VAR, I'm just anti-this
 

alexgr

RefChat Addict
#28
Playing devil's advocate here. Can it be considered a dive if Grealish hasn't appealed for anything?
Yes. I've seen this a lot from fans but the definition of simulation involves an attempt to deceive or trick the referee. Obviously, appealing can be a big part of that. But just because there isn't an appeal, it doesn't mean a player hasn't attempted to deceive the referee.
 
Likes: JH

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#30
Problem is he blew his whistle before the ball hit the net so could not give a goal.
Might be pedantry but the ball hitting the net has nothing to do with whether a goal is scored or not. A goal is scored once it crosses the goal line between and underneath the posts...
Indeed unless I have missed a change I am certain nets are not a mandatory part of the goals.
 

The Referee

Well-Known Member
#31
Might be pedantry but the ball hitting the net has nothing to do with whether a goal is scored or not. A goal is scored once it crosses the goal line between and underneath the posts...
Indeed unless I have missed a change I am certain nets are not a mandatory part of the goals.
*Pedantic
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#36
I've seen lots of games in the Championship and unfortunately Grealish has brought this upon himself. He spends more time on the floor than he does on his feet, so I can understand why officials will be suspicious when he goes down.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#37
He was at it at BL last season, a joke figure of a player who at best is brilliant, the theatrical dives thought aren’t required and cost him bad calls like this...
 
#38
He was the most fouled player in the Championship by a country mile. He also was not cautiones for simulation once. Its very short sighted to say his reputation supersedes him. Even in this case people are looking to say he brought it on himself whilst at the same time everyone agrees it was an awful decision. You cannot have it both ways. Stats do not lie.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#39
He was the most fouled player in the Championship by a country mile. He also was not cautiones for simulation once. Its very short sighted to say his reputation supersedes him. Even in this case people are looking to say he brought it on himself whilst at the same time everyone agrees it was an awful decision. You cannot have it both ways. Stats do not lie.
Attacking players who are willing to take an opponent on, will always be fouled the most. He may also have topped the stat because he successfully conned the ref more frequently than anyone else, so stats can lie
Anyway, I wouldn't want him anywhere near a team of mine because I don't like his temperament. He's a cut above Championship level on his day, but there are too many games in which he goes missing when things aren't going well
 
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