The Ref Stop

First Game

EA3140

New Member
Level 7 Referee
Evening all. I had my first game in the middle of a Sunday league game yesterday. It was a 'top of the table' clash and both teams were aware before kick off that I was a 'newly passed' referee. Maybe not the best game to have been given and thrown in the deep end!

The first 20 minutes went pretty much without incident until an off the ball scuffle which resulted in 2 players rolling around on the floor. It was quickly split up and both teams were claiming that punches were thrown. I didn't see any punches and gave both players a yellow card. One of the players did have a black eye and the other a ripped shirt, so they had clearly had a proper go at each other. Neither player was happy and insisted it was the other player that started the incident.

My reasoning for the yellow was a few factors including, not seeing any punches, that it was my first game, It's a Sunday league game and this was the first issue in the game. At half time I heard the home player say "I'm going to break his legs second half" referring to the player from the away side that he had the altercation with. I wasn't sure whether I should have taken action there and then, but I made sure I kept an eye on him second half.

The away side were far better with the ball and moved it quickly, which meant the home team were second to pretty every ball and were catching the opponents late, so there was no tempo to the game as I was constantly blowing for fouls and I tried to give a fair few advantages and let a couple go but it was clear the away team were not happy and started asking me to take action.

The second half was very much the same. I started issuing yellow cards to the home side for late and persistent challenges. The home players were getting more and more frustrated with my decisions. I sent one of the home players off who then kicked the ball at me whilst walking off the pitch.

I started getting comments from the home players to my face saying "I hope you quit refereeing after todays game", "You're s**t" and "You're not fit to referee".

My question is what action would you take hearing these comments. Can I issue a yellow card for such comments? One of the players directing abuse was the team captain and the manager on the side lines wasn't a fan of mine either.

Having spoken to the league and other teams this particular team have a 'reputation' to be difficult and poor discipline, If I had use the sin-bin I could of probably of thrown 5 or 6 of the players in there!
 
The Ref Stop
Evening all. I had my first game in the middle of a Sunday league game yesterday. It was a 'top of the table' clash and both teams were aware before kick off that I was a 'newly passed' referee. Maybe not the best game to have been given and thrown in the deep end!

The first 20 minutes went pretty much without incident until an off the ball scuffle which resulted in 2 players rolling around on the floor. It was quickly split up and both teams were claiming that punches were thrown. I didn't see any punches and gave both players a yellow card. One of the players did have a black eye and the other a ripped shirt, so they had clearly had a proper go at each other. Neither player was happy and insisted it was the other player that started the incident.

My reasoning for the yellow was a few factors including, not seeing any punches, that it was my first game, It's a Sunday league game and this was the first issue in the game. At half time I heard the home player say "I'm going to break his legs second half" referring to the player from the away side that he had the altercation with. I wasn't sure whether I should have taken action there and then, but I made sure I kept an eye on him second half.

The away side were far better with the ball and moved it quickly, which meant the home team were second to pretty every ball and were catching the opponents late, so there was no tempo to the game as I was constantly blowing for fouls and I tried to give a fair few advantages and let a couple go but it was clear the away team were not happy and started asking me to take action.

The second half was very much the same. I started issuing yellow cards to the home side for late and persistent challenges. The home players were getting more and more frustrated with my decisions. I sent one of the home players off who then kicked the ball at me whilst walking off the pitch.

I started getting comments from the home players to my face saying "I hope you quit refereeing after todays game", "You're s**t" and "You're not fit to referee".

My question is what action would you take hearing these comments. Can I issue a yellow card for such comments? One of the players directing abuse was the team captain and the manager on the side lines wasn't a fan of mine either.

Having spoken to the league and other teams this particular team have a 'reputation' to be difficult and poor discipline, If I had use the sin-bin I could of probably of thrown 5 or 6 of the players in there!
So depending on the comments and how you want to take it, if you were that those comments made to you were insulting or offensive you can red card those players for OFFINABUS(Offensive, insulting and abusive language/gestures). Although another way is to issue dissents (sin bins) to players, as that will make their team have 10 men for 10 minutes which in a game for 11 a side is extremely punishing. Also for the language that you have given as example I would recommend dissents and talking to someone in your county FA about this match, and if truly during that match and the language is c*nt, cheat, f*cken sh*t, and like that issue red card for OFFINABUS.

Edit:
Reread through what you said and the instance where the player who you sent off the pitch who kicked the ball at you is in fact considered physical assault so you should definitely contact your county FA as that is extremely serious.
Although what I know is not the best other members in this community know more than me like @RustyRef
 
From what you type, as Kref above says, sadly, you have been assaulted, kicking the ball at you is equal to simply being kicked, ( if the actual incident played out like the version in my head).

its most certainly a red card for violent conduct, a report of exceptional misconduct, and its also to be reported to the police.

there was a link to Referee Association guidelines posted in another topic last week detailing what criteria makes up assault, and, what to do when it happens.

repeat, you have been assaulted and police must be informed, MUST.


horrible at any time, far less first game.
 
It seems the league really done you putting you in a top of the table clash where one of the sides has a reputation for poor discipline. It does nothing to help you or the league as many a ref may just jack it in after.

We don't have sin bins where I ref, but I would have handled the incidents as followed:

- Players get up from ground where one has a ripped shirt and the other a black eye - both sent off. No place in a game for two players on the ground fighting each other, even if punches were not thrown.

- A player says "I'm going to break his legs second half". A definite caution but I'd strongly consider a red card.

- Player kicks ball at me after being sent off. Personally, I wouldn't waste police time as where I live, they won't do anything. I'd obviously report to the league, and in my report suggest I may.

- Any player that says "I hope you quit refereeing after todays game", "You're s**t" and "You're not fit to referee" - all a red card. No second thoughts.


Remember, in every one of the incidents above, players made a conscious decision to do or say those things.
Failing to send off players for any of the above will show that there is tolerance for this type of behavior on the pitch, and the next ref may not be as hard skinned and decide to leave the game.
There is a reason there is a shortage of refs and we need to look at ourselves and stop being so tolerant towards bad behavior.
 
It seems the league really done you putting you in a top of the table clash where one of the sides has a reputation for poor discipline. It does nothing to help you or the league as many a ref may just jack it in after.

We don't have sin bins where I ref, but I would have handled the incidents as followed:

- Players get up from ground where one has a ripped shirt and the other a black eye - both sent off. No place in a game for two players on the ground fighting each other, even if punches were not thrown.

- A player says "I'm going to break his legs second half". A definite caution but I'd strongly consider a red card.

- Player kicks ball at me after being sent off. Personally, I wouldn't waste police time as where I live, they won't do anything. I'd obviously report to the league, and in my report suggest I may.

- Any player that says "I hope you quit refereeing after todays game", "You're s**t" and "You're not fit to referee" - all a red card. No second thoughts.


Remember, in every one of the incidents above, players made a conscious decision to do or say those things.
Failing to send off players for any of the above will show that there is tolerance for this type of behavior on the pitch, and the next ref may not be as hard skinned and decide to leave the game.
There is a reason there is a shortage of refs and we need to look at ourselves and stop being so tolerant towards bad behavior.

**** Post removed as am talking mince ***
 
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Firstly, well done on getting though a challenging game. The league have done you no favours giving such a match, especially if you didn't have a mentor/coach there with you. On your various actions:
The first 20 minutes went pretty much without incident until an off the ball scuffle which resulted in 2 players rolling around on the floor. It was quickly split up and both teams were claiming that punches were thrown. I didn't see any punches and gave both players a yellow card. One of the players did have a black eye and the other a ripped shirt, so they had clearly had a proper go at each other. Neither player was happy and insisted it was the other player that started the incident.

My reasoning for the yellow was a few factors including, not seeing any punches, that it was my first game, It's a Sunday league game and this was the first issue in the game. At half time I heard the home player say "I'm going to break his legs second half" referring to the player from the away side that he had the altercation with. I wasn't sure whether I should have taken action there and then, but I made sure I kept an eye on him second half.
No issue here with the yellows, it is in the opinion of the referee. If you weren't certain, then a caution is al you should give. I would have also recommend a strong public warning - "any more and your gone". That would have given you full licence to deal with the player at half time either with a another caution or a dismissal. Personally, I think it is dismissal for OFFINABUS.
The away side were far better with the ball and moved it quickly, which meant the home team were second to pretty every ball and were catching the opponents late, so there was no tempo to the game as I was constantly blowing for fouls and I tried to give a fair few advantages and let a couple go but it was clear the away team were not happy and started asking me to take action.

The second half was very much the same. I started issuing yellow cards to the home side for late and persistent challenges. The home players were getting more and more frustrated with my decisions. I sent one of the home players off who then kicked the ball at me whilst walking off the pitch.
First lesson, where this starts to happen, stop playing advantage. Deal with the offence there and then, otherwise sometime players think they have "had a free one" and will retaliate.

The dismissal needs to be report as an assault. If it was a straight dismissal for VC, then it is also an assault so the CFA needs to be aware.

I started getting comments from the home players to my face saying "I hope you quit refereeing after todays game", "You're s**t" and "You're not fit to referee".

My question is what action would you take hearing these comments. Can I issue a yellow card for such comments? One of the players directing abuse was the team captain and the manager on the side lines wasn't a fan of mine either.

Having spoken to the league and other teams this particular team have a 'reputation' to be difficult and poor discipline, If I had use the sin-bin I could of probably of thrown 5 or 6 of the players in there!
Yes, you could issue cautions and dismissal for such actions if you are aware of the players. However, that may have inflamed the situation, so I can understand why some referees wouldn't. In such case, speak with your RDO as you may need to submit an extraordinary report form against the club as a whole, rather than the individual players.

Do you have a mentor/coach assigned to you by your CFA? If so, give them a ring for a de-brief. You have handled a challenging game well and should take confidence from this. The home team players comments is why new referees don't stay and they are the first to complain when they don't have a appointed referee to their matches...
 
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- Player kicks ball at me after being sent off. Personally, I wouldn't waste police time as where I live, they won't do anything. I'd obviously report to the league, and in my report suggest I may.
Yes, the police may not do anything at this time. But another referee has the same problem, then they already have one report on file. Additionally, the CFA are aware that the matter has been reported to the police, so have more evidence that they can do the player/club for misconduct.

Please don't be "last week's referee"......
 
Players fighting on the floor leading to one with a black eye and the other a ripped shirt = both sent off for violent conduct (doesn't have to be punches).

Player threatening to break an opponent's legs = sent off for offensive language. It is not safe to have a player on the pitch who is openly contemplating causing serious injury to an opponent even if they might try to claim it is a 'joke'.

Ball kicked at me after sending a player off, I would definitely make an extraordinary misconduct report, and seek advice from the RA about what to do in the particular circumstances (not clear whether it struck you) https://www.the-ra.org/news/guidance-regarding-assaults-on-match-officials

The comments from home players to your face should all have received a sanction of some kind. The 'you're s**t' I would always say sending off for abusive language is best. The others you could justify a caution (sin bin) for dissent as an alternative, but if too many players have basically lost control by that point then sending off for insulting language is always an option, or abandoning the match altogether if you feel unsafe to issue sanctions.

Any game like this with violent conduct early on is likely to need tight control for the rest of the match e.g. only giving advantage where it is especially obvious, and rigorous use of sanctions.

Well done for getting through it and definitely seek support from your RDO and mentor.
 
You quote " stop being tolerant" but would refuse to follow the RA directive on being assaulted?

you are now part of the problem
I don't know what this RA directive is...
However, I would be speaking with my local referee branch for advise.
 
Not going to echo all the words said above, as they’ve covered the points.

But well done on getting through it, as a new ref it was obviously going to be a challenge, and as someone who recently went through similar, it’s not easy.

Hope you can stay motivated to continue reffing, and best of luck for the future :)
 
I don't know what this RA directive is...
However, I would be speaking with my local referee branch for advise.

Wait

To referee, you must be a member?

and you are not fully aware of their regulations?


apologies in advance if that is not the caxe and you can indeed referee without being in the RA
 
Wait

To referee, you must be a member?

and you are not fully aware of their regulations?


apologies in advance if that is not the caxe and you can indeed referee without being in the RA
Not in Ireland. All you need to become a "newly qualified referee" is to sit the referee course and pass the test (which everyone pretty much does).
Some referees join local branches and some do not. If you don't join one, you are pretty much on your own.
 
Wait

To referee, you must be a member?

and you are not fully aware of their regulations?


apologies in advance if that is not the caxe and you can indeed referee without being in the RA
The referee association (RA) is independent of County FA who holds the referee registration.

Ergo one can be a registered referee and not be a member of the RA.
 
Wait

To referee, you must be a member?

and you are not fully aware of their regulations?


apologies in advance if that is not the caxe and you can indeed referee without being in the RA
a) No, you don't have to be a member of the RA. Even if you did, that would be irrelevant, because...
b) He lives in Ireland 😂
 
a) No, you don't have to be a member of the RA. Even if you did, that would be irrelevant, because...
b) He lives in Ireland 😂

No idea where he stays and
Not in Ireland. All you need to become a "newly qualified referee" is to sit the referee course and pass the test (which everyone pretty much does).
Some referees join local branches and some do not. If you don't join one, you are pretty much on your own.

apologies
 
The referee association (RA) is independent of County FA who holds the referee registration.

Ergo one can be a registered referee and not be a member of the RA.
Newly qualified referees in England over the last three seasons have been given a year's free membership by the RA.
After that paid renewal would be needed.
 
well done on getting through the game and agree you've been stitched up getting such a tough game 1st up. I know it's not massively important but i wonder how both teams knew you were newly qualified. I never divulged this when i was and if someone did comment "are you knew" i just replied "to this league, yes but i've been reffing for yrs" they don't need to know the truth.

Also, i always position myself well away from both teams at HT. Takes away all the issues of overhearing something and then having to decide whether to take action or not. If that player had put a leg breaking challenge in on the player in the 2nd half and you'd taken no action someone may pipe up that you knew that was going to happen as you heard the comment.
 
Completely agree with sending off a player kicking the ball at you, even if it misses, and report it as a red card and extraordinary incident. Some would say you should also abandon the game, personally I would say that is down to how the referee feels about continuing.

Not sure I agree with reporting it to the police though. OK, if it is kicked with force and strikes you in the face then I can understand that, but not if it isn't with force and certainly not if it misses. There is zero chance they are going to do anything about it, and the time they take to decide to do nothing about it could be spent on dealing with someone who has actually been assaulted, had their house burgled, etc. There's also a risk of "the boy who cried wolf", if every referee reported a player kicking the ball at them there's a very real risk it would dilute the seriousness of referee assaults and mean they are less likely to act when there is a serious one. Just my opinion though.

There are three tiers of offences against match official charges in England ...

- Threatening behaviour
- Physical contact or attempted physical contact
- Assault or attempted assault

In my experience, kicking the ball at the referee, unless it causes injury, and certainly if it misses, is going to fall into the first category. That carries a suspension between 56 and 182 days, and where it sits is that is likely to depend on whether they admit it, show genuine remorse, the age of the offender, and any previous offences. Realistically, if they hold their hands up, say they are sorry, and haven't done it before, it is much more likely to be closer to 56 than 182.

Even if they class it as the 2nd category, the sanction is between 112 days and 2 years. Again, with remorse and no previous offences it will be around the lower end of the scale and certainly not more than a year.

The only ones the police will show any interest in are those in the final category, where the player is looking at between 5 and 10 years (reduced to minimum 2 years aged 14 and under), minimum 10 if it causes serious injury.

Interestingly, for any assault by a match official on a participant there is no sliding scale, it is minimum 5 years and 10 years if it causes serious assault.

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Link here if of interest, from page 215. https://www.thefa.com/-/media/files...ividual-sections/fa_handbook_2022-23_v11.ashx
 
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