The Ref Stop

FA Cup Replays Scrapped

The Ref Stop
Terrible decision by the FA.

Sutton United's 2017 run earnt them enough money to pay their annual wage bill with the prize money and then make investments in the ground and facilities using the sponsorship and gate receipts.

Lincoln City went a step further that same season, the cup generated them enough money to build an elite performace centre

And Grimsby Town earnt around £1m during their run last season.

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Think @es1 suggestion is the only way to go to benefit the lower ranked clubs. A really wacky idea would be that all FA Cup games are played at neutral grounds.
 
I know a lot of countries (Germany is the first one that comes to my mind) stipulate that the lower ranked team plays at home anyway. I don’t like this move, although it doesn’t surprise me. They’ve also moved the final, which is what bothers me the most. Tradition is that it’s the last domestic match of the season.
 
Gabriel said:
I know a lot of countries (Germany is the first one that comes to my mind) stipulate that the lower ranked team plays at home anyway. I don’t like this move, although it doesn’t surprise me. They’ve also moved the final, which is what bothers me the most. Tradition is that it’s the last domestic match of the season.
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there was a time through the 2010's when it was before the end of the season, not saying i like it but it hasnt always been the last game!
 
This is just fundamentally wrong. The FA are supposed to represent all clubs, but the only clubs this benefits is those in the Premier League, and perhaps the wealthier Championship clubs. Lower league and non-league clubs have avoided going out of business due to money they have received from cup runs and replays.

No surprise on the timing either, they know the Independent Football Regulator is incoming, and there's no way they would get this through once that position is in place. An independent regulator wouldn't be needed if the FA governed the game properly, but this decision demonstrates exactly why it is needed.
 
RustyRef said:
This is just fundamentally wrong. The FA are supposed to represent all clubs, but the only clubs this benefits is those in the Premier League, and perhaps the wealthier Championship clubs. Lower league and non-league clubs have avoided going out of business due to money they have received from cup runs and replays.

No surprise on the timing either, they know the Independent Football Regulator is incoming, and there's no way they would get this through once that position is in place. An independent regulator wouldn't be needed if the FA governed the game properly, but this decision demonstrates exactly why it is needed.
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I agree entirely with this. If replays caused that much of a problem, they could have removed them from the qualifying stages when they are only worth £2000 at the most (generally speaking), rather than from the competition proper where teams could be earning hundreds of thousands from one match.
 
Dissenting voice over here. I think this has been overstated.

Replay, Exeter to Barrow or Gateshead on a Tuesday night. (Extreme example but feasible). All that expense of getting there eats the gate receipts from the tie. And. It on TV? Less cash anyway.

How many ties between “mismatched” teams actually go to a replay? More often it’s teams at the same level/tier playing off against each other.

More chance of causing an upset on the day than having to play again.

Cup run cash? Going through in a one-off tie gives you a greater chance of a plum tie that you can prepare for. And the prize money is the biggest revenue driver lower down the pyramid - gate receipts go on costs.

It’s no longer a top tier issue but again many clubs treat all cups as a distraction as because the league is the number one.

And even less sympathy with League 1 and 2 clubs on this as there’s an element of hypocrisy here. EFL Trophy gives a legitimate chance of getting to Wembley and picking up money from ticket sales, but many bin it off, playing weakened sides as again “the league is the priority”.
 
The decision is a consequence of the restructuring of the Champions League, thus it has a direct relationship with looking after the interests of the rich clubs. As in Capitalist Societies the world over, the disparity of wealth in football continues to race beyond recall.
It all has a sickening feel to it. Independent regulation is urgently needed
 
FA Statement:

"We have listened to the concerns expressed over the last 24 hours, and would like to outline the approval process which was undertaken for the 2024-25 professional game football calendar. We have been discussing the calendar for the 2024-25 season with the Premier League and EFL for well over a year.

"Removing Emirates FA Cup replays was discussed in the early meetings and all parties accepted that they could not continue. The discussions then focused on how to make all of our competitions stronger, despite having fewer dates available and wanting to maintain player welfare.

"The changes to the Emirates FA Cup achieve this by returning it to a weekend competition on every round, and ensuring that we have exclusive broadcast slots in an increasingly congested calendar.

"To clarify, we have also increased the number of Emirates FA Cup matches that will be broadcast in the early rounds, which will lead to additional guaranteed broadcast revenue for EFL and National League teams.

"Additionally, we review the prize money annually for the competition, together with representatives from the EFL and PL and will do the same for the 2024-25 season.

"The calendar for next season was approved by the Professional Game Board, which consists of four EFL representatives and four Premier League representatives, last month, and then by the FA Board, which includes Premier League, EFL, National Game and grassroots representation. This is the process we undergo every year to approve the calendar.

"We understand the concerns expressed over the last 24 hours, and we will be sharing more details with clubs very shortly to explain the additional revenue opportunities in the early rounds.

"We will keep this under review as the new calendar begins to ensure that EFL and National League clubs do not lose out."
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Fair play to them for responding so quickly. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
RefereeX said:
Fair play to them for responding so quickly. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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It will be very interesting but I doubt much will happen. Football has become dominated by money and pl clubs have a very strong influence in this.
 
Tealeaf said:
Dissenting voice over here. I think this has been overstated.

Replay, Exeter to Barrow or Gateshead on a Tuesday night. (Extreme example but feasible). All that expense of getting there eats the gate receipts from the tie. And. It on TV? Less cash anyway.

How many ties between “mismatched” teams actually go to a replay? More often it’s teams at the same level/tier playing off against each other.

More chance of causing an upset on the day than having to play again.

Cup run cash? Going through in a one-off tie gives you a greater chance of a plum tie that you can prepare for. And the prize money is the biggest revenue driver lower down the pyramid - gate receipts go on costs.

It’s no longer a top tier issue but again many clubs treat all cups as a distraction as because the league is the number one.

And even less sympathy with League 1 and 2 clubs on this as there’s an element of hypocrisy here. EFL Trophy gives a legitimate chance of getting to Wembley and picking up money from ticket sales, but many bin it off, playing weakened sides as again “the league is the priority”.
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Agree it doesn't happen that often, but don't really think that is the point, there have been many cases over the years of a minnow getting a draw and bagging a lucrative replay. One significant case was Exeter around 2005, they were drawn away to Man Utd who spectacularly underestimated them and it went to a replay. The first game wasn't televised but the replay was, they were days away from going into administration and the money from that FA Cup tie saved them.

There are of course many others. The famous Hereford vs Newcastle game would never have happened without replays. I understand the fixture pressure with extended UEFA competitions and the Club World Cup, but there are other options, for example ...
  • Do it from the 3rd round proper, not the first, so at least then non-league clubs get the chance of replays at Football League grounds.
  • Exempt clubs in Europe from the Caraboa Cup, or allow them to play their under 23 teams.
  • Perhaps the top clubs should reconsider travelling all over the world in pre and close season to give their players more of a rest.
Whichever way it gets dressed up it is all down to the greed of the top clubs, and the problem I have is where the FA sit. They are supposed to represent all clubs, in this case all those down to step 5 / 6 who are eligible to enter the FA Cup, not just those at the top of the Premier League.
 
RefereeX said:
Fair play to them for responding so quickly. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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The EFL have issued a statement pretty much accusing the FA of lying, saying there has been absolutely no discussions on this since last September and that this was a decision taken just between the FA and EPL.

The EFL wishes to clarify further its position in respect of yesterday’s Premier League and Football Association bi-lateral announcement over the removal of FA Cup replays and the role of the League’s representatives on the Professional Game Board (PGB).

The agreement which now sees the abolition of replays from the competition format was agreed solely between the Premier League and FA. Ahead of the deal being announced there was no agreement with the EFL nor was there any formal consultation with EFL Clubs as members of the FA and participants in the competition.

In September 2023, the EFL did initially discuss with Clubs potential changes to the FA Cup format but only as part of a wider and more fundamental change to financial distributions. As is now clear, there has been no movement in this area since September.

This latest agreement between the Premier League and the FA, in the absence of financial reform, is just a further example of how the EFL and its Clubs are being marginalised in favour of others further up the pyramid and that only serves to threaten the future of the English game.

The EFL today calls on both the Premier League and the FA, as the Governing body, to re-evaluate their approach to their footballing partnership with the EFL and engage more collaboratively on issues directly affecting our Clubs.

A separate issue is the role of the EFL representatives on the Professional Game Board (PGB) in agreeing to the 2024/25 overall fixture calendar. PGB is there to make technical decisions across the game as opposed to key policy decisions such as competition changes or formats.

Any decisions taken on the calendar involving EFL representatives are in no way an endorsement of the joint deal agreed between the FA and Premier League that imposes changes to the FA Cup competition format in isolation.

As part of the discussions the EFL representatives did challenge the position and were told that Clubs would be comfortable with no replays. They were effectively advised that, as a result, of it being an FA competition, the fixture list needed to be agreed as presented. It is also important to note that this matter was not discussed by the FA Cup committee, a separate group that oversees the competition across the professional and national game.
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There are sensible ways this could have been done, this just isn't it.

The concern is obviously gate receipts for a smaller team being lost - the solution IMO would have been to keep the revenue split but bundle this with a rule change that states if matches are drawn between teams from different divisions, the lower division team gets to decide if the match is home or away. If teams are in the same (or equivalent, ie NL N and S) divisions, first ball drawn is home. Significantly increases the odds of a smaller team actually getting that big payout by playing away, or you can choose to play at home and gamble you'll get home advantage against a bigger away team to get to the next round.
 
Nothing surprises me anymore, the FA Cup has lost a bit of spark and it starts at the top. The FA and the media have been watering down the world's oldest cup competition for years. Started with doing away with replays of the final, then semi finals, moving the traditional 3pm kick off time of the final to suit tv companies, moving the date with Premier League games still to play after the final etc.

As a kid, used to love FA Cup Final day, regardless of who was playing. BBC & ITV would cover everything from around 9am, these days you're lucky if the program starts 30 minutes before the game and pundits are often still talking, they then fail to switch views for the start of abide with me etc.

The days of Sheffield Wednesday Vs Leeds going to a 3rd replay are now for the archives and us oldies with memories long enough only!
 
Mooseybaby said:
Nothing surprises me anymore, the FA Cup has lost a bit of spark and it starts at the top. The FA and the media have been watering down the world's oldest cup competition for years. Started with doing away with replays of the final, then semi finals, moving the traditional 3pm kick off time of the final to suit tv companies, moving the date with Premier League games still to play after the final etc.

As a kid, used to love FA Cup Final day, regardless of who was playing. BBC & ITV would cover everything from around 9am, these days you're lucky if the program starts 30 minutes before the game and pundits are often still talking, they then fail to switch views for the start of abide with me etc.

The days of Sheffield Wednesday Vs Leeds going to a 3rd replay are now for the archives and us oldies with memories long enough only!
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Not sure that stacks up with what has happened the last couple of seasons though. The big clubs have taken the FA Cup seriously, they have played their first teams, and there have been fairy tale stories that a few seasons earlier looked like they were disappearing. Almost feels like it has had a bit of a renaissance.

Times move on. Back then the cup final was one of very few live televised games in the season, now there are 5,6,7, etc, live top division games a week. The BBC and ITV can't show 7 hours of build up like they used to, they get criticised for showing football at all (wait for the uproar from non-football fans when the Euros starts), and ITV aren't going to get sufficient advertising revenue for showing footage of people walking down Wembley Way from 11am.

Don't get me wrong, I've been as vocal as anyone about the scrapping of replays being fundamentally wrong, but things aren't going to go back to how they were 35 years ago before Sky got involved.
 
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