Ever had to bin a fellow official - what would you do?

[santa sangria]

I had a horrible match yesterday. My assistant argued with players a lot. Twice I had to whistle very loud to shut everyone up - to shut him up. The second time I blasted, screamed, but then he just carried on shouting at a player, and of course, loads of players started shouting again too. A few minutes later there was an innocuous deflection for a corner, not seen by most of the defending team. A lot of shouting/protesting/swearing by the same players leading to a second yellow for protesting. All together 5 yellows for protesting in this period. All directly attributable to my colleague IMHO. He has previous for this and I've warned him before previous matches. There was also plenty more dismal stuff that I could rant about another time. And the red carded player wouldn't leave and when he finally did he also physically threatened me - bonus - extra report!

Anyway, in this game, I was thinking that I might have to pause the game to at least warn my assistant, or then dismiss him.

So, in this kind of scenario, with no 4th and no CARs but NARs (so "proper" accredited assistants) what would you do?
Warn the assistant away from the players first I think. But can you dismiss a rogue assistant? I don't think it's grounds for abandonment as you could carry on one down. But do you even have the right to dismiss?

Bonus question - (how) do I tell my refsec about this, I think they'd want to know, but it's really awkward...?

 

[ASM]

Ah, the difficulties of colleagues causing problems. Sadly it happens on occasions.

You certainly can dismiss the rogue assistant as it’s in Law 6:

In the event of undue interference or improper conduct, the referee will relieve them of their duties and make a report to the appropriate authorities.

I’d certainly be thinking about reporting it to your refsec, simply so they have an awareness of it having happened.

 

[Big Cat]

I had a horrible match yesterday. My assistant argued with players a lot. Twice I had to whistle very loud to shut everyone up - to shut him up. The second time I blasted, screamed, but then he just carried on shouting at a player, and of course, loads of players started shouting again too. A few minutes later there was an innocuous deflection for a corner, not seen by most of the defending team. A lot of shouting/protesting/swearing by the same players leading to a second yellow for protesting. All together 5 yellows for protesting in this period. All directly attributable to my colleague IMHO. He has previous for this and I've warned him before previous matches. There was also plenty more dismal stuff that I could rant about another time. And the red carded player wouldn't leave and when he finally did he also physically threatened me - bonus - extra report!

Anyway, in this game, I was thinking that I might have to pause the game to at least warn my assistant, or then dismiss him.

So, in this kind of scenario, with no 4th and no CARs but NARs (so "proper" accredited assistants) what would you do?
Warn the assistant away from the players first I think. But can you dismiss a rogue assistant? I don't think it's grounds for abandonment as you could carry on one down. But do you even have the right to dismiss?

Bonus question - (how) do I tell my refsec about this, I think they'd want to know, but it's really awkward...?

I think the forum is at it's very best when we share bad experiences. Thinking about one another's trial & tribulations is what put us ahead of the crowd. I've sacked numerous CARs, but it would take some bottle to send a NAR packing

 

[Texan]

I can think of 2 incidents - many many years apart.
1. The Assistant swore at the crowd behind him - they were giving him some grief and swearing - but one decided that he would report him unless he apologised - which he did. Double standards of course but the Assistant would've been hung out to dry. Bottom line was he should not have bit!
2. This Assistant always wore contact lenses but on this day he decided he couldn't wear them and had to wear his specs instead. The problem was it was a sunny day and he had reactor light specs. First offside he didn't give the "blind man" comments came out. All quite humorous - "Wheres your dog? First time I've seen a flag on a stick. Etc etc". He did his job fine though. I was assessed and the assessor told me - quite assertively - that I should have replaced him with a club lino and call the offsides myself! (all referees call offside in Wales - not club linos).

 

[QuaverRef]

I had one a few years back where a ball was played over the top and I thought from my angle he was offside, quick look over to my NAR and he was stood still with no flag. play on and goal scored. I looked back over, saw him still stood 40 yards up the field trying to get chewing gum from a packet. The players spotted this so I went over and had a word and he told me he was onside. I was convinced he wasnt actually looking but I had to go with it. He rarely moved from that spot, maybe sidestepping 5 yards either way and I spoke to him at HT but nothing changed so I debated getting rid of him as he was causing problem but in the end, I basically bottled it as I couldn’t in my own mind work out how to approach it.

I’m not an RDO, assessor etc so how on earth do you approach another qualified referee and tell them they aren’t doing the job properly and to go home.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

I just sacked them all off after a couple of seasons, better off at the Dog & Duck, only one bloke to moan at and he was always right! Even when he was wrong!!

 

[one]

I know you said you had prior with him. Did you speak with him after this specific game and explain the problems he caused? If the incident was in the first half talk to him at half time and I'd even go as far as saying any repeats and I'd dismiss him.

I would not warn him while players can see though, unless it looks like you are talking about something else. It will have a negative impact on your match control.

At the very least I'd be asking he is not assigned to you as an assistant in the future.

Can't say I've had similar incidents in my games. I've had lazy and/or incompetent assistants many times in the past, mostly young new referees, which has been obvious to everyone and even though I get complaints about them from players, they haven't caused major issues.

 

[RustyRef]

I've had assistants cause me major issues with poor decisions, but not so much with behaviour towards players and officials, at least not on the pitch.

You do need to be aware of assistants behaviour off the pitch as well though, I've had assistants make at best unhelpful, and at worst disastrous, comments off the pitch. The biggest risk is the boardroom after the game, a loosed tongued assistant can easily turn your safe 80 into a far from safe 61 if they make an ill advised comment. I know of one level 3 referee who had to leave straight after the game so couldn't go into the boardroom, one of his assistants then told both clubs that the penalty that had decided the game was blatantly wrong, that undoubtedly killed him in terms of his club marks but also wouldn't help him the next time he referees those teams.

 

[afronaut81]

I know of one level 3 referee who had to leave straight after the game so couldn't go into the boardroom, one of his assistants then told both clubs that the penalty that had decided the game was blatantly wrong, that undoubtedly killed him in terms of his club marks but also wouldn't help him the next time he referees those teams.

Why would you do this! The referee is right even when he's wrong. This is just throwing him under the bus with no right to reply!

 

[Mintyref]

Why would you do this! The referee is right even when he's wrong. This is just throwing him under the bus with no right to reply!

Because we're human and sometimes animosity overrides the group norms......in other words, what goes around comes around.......

 

[RustyRef]

Why would you do this! The referee is right even when he's wrong. This is just throwing him under the bus with no right to reply!

I don't even know if it was intentional, leave an assistant at the club who will feed and water him and things might get said. The vast majority of my assistants I would 100% trust in the board room, but there were a few that alarm bells would be ringing. I certainly wouldn't leave them in there without me there.

 

[santa sangria]

I know you said you had prior with him. Did you speak with him after this specific game and explain the problems he caused? If the incident was in the first half talk to him at half time and I'd even go as far as saying any repeats and I'd dismiss him.

Yes, after a previous game a few years ago we discussed it. And I’ve reminded him in the briefing previously before games and before this one.

This match was exceptional though as, in retrospect, I think he tried to undermine me from the coin toss! So, he’s obviously carrying a chip. But there a quite a few colleagues that avoid this guy so I’m not nuts here

 

[RobOda]

Why would you do this! The referee is right even when he's wrong.

Have you worked in a team of 3 often? It didn't take me long to get assigned two colleagues who couldn't stand the sight of each other. Most awkward dressing room ever. I hate it when they can't put their differences aside.

I especially hate working with people who are all sweet and roses until the other guy is out of earshot and then they start slagging them off.

I was assessed and the assessor told me - quite assertively - that I should have replaced him with a club lino and call the offsides myself!

Why though? I'm assuming his specs were working fine and he was doing the job properly?

I’m not an RDO, assessor etc so how on earth do you approach another qualified referee and tell them they aren’t doing the job properly and to go home.

Never had to, so no idea how it would come up.

Mind you, I once had an A/R who genuinely had no idea how to run the line, didn't get an intro course or anything. Myself and the other A/R had to give him a crash course and he basically didn't do anything in the match. No offside, no throw in flags outside of what I signalled, nothing. The players were taking the mick and getting frustrated, but we got through it.

In this situation, would you relieve him of the A/R duties?

I didn't, and I don't blame him or anything because he got this appointment and did his best, but I don't think he should have been assigned. I could relate to him because my first A/R appointment went much the same way, I was thrown in without any training and unfortunately for me, the referee at the time was fairly obviously annoyed that both myself and the other A/R were first-timers and put in a complaint about it, which really knocked my confidence at the time. So, that's partially why I tried my utmost not to do anything that would have put him down.

 

[afronaut81]

Have you worked in a team of 3 often? It didn't take me long to get assigned two colleagues who couldn't stand the sight of each other. Most awkward dressing room ever. I hate it when they can't put their differences aside.
.

I've done about 5 games so minimal. Just starting out really and this thread is an eye opener! I suppose it's not in my nature to undermine the ref as he's seen an incident from his point of view.

 

[one]

Mind you, I once had an A/R who genuinely had no idea how to run the line, didn't get an intro course or anything. Myself and the other A/R had to give him a crash course and he basically didn't do anything in the match. No offside, no throw in flags outside of what I signalled, nothing. The players were taking the mick and getting frustrated, but we got through it.

In this situation, would you relieve him of the A/R duties?

I didn't, and I don't blame him or anything because he got this appointment and did his best, but I don't think he should have been assigned. I could relate to him because my first A/R appointment went much the same way, I was thrown in without any training and unfortunately for me, the referee at the time was fairly obviously annoyed that both myself and the other A/R were first-timers and put in a complaint about it, which really knocked my confidence at the time. So, that's partially why I tried my utmost not to do anything that would have put him down.

You can manage (make decisions with or without him. Its the players that need to be managed accordingly. Its all about setting expectations without throwing your AR under the bus.

Not quite the same, I have worked with one of members who is intellectually disabled. He is with us at grassroots because he enjoys being involved. He is used with a known set of experienced referees only. We always debrief the teams before the game (if they don't know him already). The has never been any issues because the teams know what to expect. I do acknowledge this is a especial case where teams are more tolerant, but it illustrates the point.

 

[Jtpetherick1]

You can manage (make decisions with or without him. Its the players that need to be managed accordingly. Its all about setting expectations without throwing your AR under the bus.

Not quite the same, I have worked with one of members who is intellectually disabled. He is with us at grassroots because he enjoys being involved. He is used with a known set of experienced referees only. We always debrief the teams before the game (if they don't know him already). The has never been any issues because the teams know what to expect. I do acknowledge this is a especial case where teams are more tolerant, but it illustrates the point.

Surely the point is that its about how you as a referee adapt. Its about managing players - whether that's a quiet word pre match as one says or making sure you're doing 100x the work to get into positions to make decisions for them. As long as the decision is right or the players are prepared to tolerate the odd slip up I don't see the problem.

 

[Big Cat]

At FT, if there's any talking to be done whilst leaving the FOP, only the Referee should communicate. Same applies to anyone who approaches the team (of officials) for an explanation (or row!) after the game. Unless the Referee calls upon a comment from an AR
(Indeed, despite 'team' inexperience, I'd add this to my pre-match instruction)

Just a dynamic of the game

 

[santa sangria]

I've done about 5 games so minimal. Just starting out really and this thread is an eye opener! I suppose it's not in my nature to undermine the ref as he's seen an incident from his point of view.

It’s an important skill to learn: respect. When you work as an AR you have to respect your ref, support your ref, do (or not do) the things so your ref haa the right info, can keep control etc.

When you are a ref you have to respect your assistants. Check Madely’s pre match video on here.

This scenario I’ve had here is thankfully rare. It’s an old guy who has slipped through the net. Others avoid him but he’s carried on a level or two above where he should be - and he has a disgusting attitude.

The examples here about working with first time AR/‘s, that’s a totally different thing. And if that happens it’s normally a low level game.

Both are a test if character for a referee, buf of course it’s much easier and more satisfying helping beginners through games than dealing with someone out of control deliberately out to undermine you (very very rare).

 

[Texan]

There are occasional non-team officials. A friend of mine was told by the referee that if he didn't see it he wasn't interested and your job is throw ins and offside only - only if I agree!
Needless to say the centre-forward left hooked the opposing centre-half. He did flag only to be reminded of the pre-match instructions. There were fights breaking out all over the field. The unexpected assessor came in after the game and the referee blamed the assistants! Huge row!

 

[RustyRef]

Sometimes officials just don't get on. I've been there in changing rooms where the other two hate each other and it is horrible, and is always caused when something has happened in a previous game. I've heard one story multiple times, in that an AR gave a potentially iffy offside that denied a goal and at half time the referee said "if you weren't such a f***ing fat f****r you'd have been in line to see that he wasn't off", the other AR then had to drag them apart after it got physical.

And on one game I was AR1 with a referee who was well known for not wanting his assistants to give ball in and out and offsides only. AR2 hadn't read the script, or more likely had but decided he would rewrite it, and flagged an attacking free kick bang central on the edge of the D, with the referee then shouting "put that flag down". The home team manager, who had benefited from not giving away a free kick that the assistant had seen, came up to ask if I wanted to go into their changing room at half time as he reckoned it might be a bit frosty in ours, and he wasn't wrong ...