A&H

England v Nederland

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VR can't be instantaneous so long as it is designed to review judgment calls. Sports that have very fast review are reviewing black and white things--did the tennis ball hit the line. Most sport exclude judgment calls. But even ostensibly black and white reviews in other sports take time (i'm thinking NBA basketball--who touched it last) or American baseball (was the tag before the runner touched the base). If those factual reviews take time, how did anyone ever expect it would be fast to determine on video both whether the arm and ball had contact (Factual) and whether it meets the definition of deliberate (judgment). Even the primary factual call--OSP--is complicated by timing and precisely determining positions of players 3o yards apart from one another. That all takes, and will always take, time. (Unless, I suppose, we turn this all over to an AI . . . .)
From what i've seen of the offside technology in development, it shouldn't have to be that far removed from GLT
Although UEFA are pushing the VAR propaganda hard, its these delayed offsides which suck the life out of the game. Why the law makers fought hard against technology for two decades before suddenly overwhelming the game with changes is absurd. It can only boil down to money, which will also be the only thing that to apply the brakes if the game becomes less appealing
 
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The Referee Store
I'm watching this game on replay as I was busy officiating a high school state tournament in the US yesterday . . .

I'm not to the VAR issues yet, but Clement Turpin is sure making the game look pretty effortless. Very calm, always in control, and seemed to be effectively communicating with the players. I thought he was a little "deer in the headlights" at the last Euros, but he's addressed a lot of that now. He's a very, very good referee.
 
I agree, Southgate wants to play our from the back, thats fine. But there is a time and a place. Look at City, they are masters of it from the goalkeeper, right through the team. But they change their game plan when they play Liverpool who are prepared to press them high up the pitch. Its all well and good playing out from the back but sometimes row Z will do while you re-set or a long ball into the channel. Stones poor, Walker poor. Maguire was better and i like Chilwell. It will be interesting to see a fit Joe Gomez in that back 4.
Ironic that it was 2 City players that let us down time and time again last night.
 
Ironic that it was 2 City players that let us down time and time again last night.
Shattered
Their 'biggies' have been and gone
The Nations League has been a huge improvement over pointless friendlies, but the sponsors don't care much for athlete's mesocycles and such like
 
From what i've seen of the offside technology in development, it shouldn't have to be that far removed from GLT
Although UEFA are pushing the VAR propaganda hard, its these delayed offsides which suck the life out of the game. Why the law makers fought hard against technology for two decades before suddenly overwhelming the game with changes is absurd. It can only boil down to money, which will also be the only thing that to apply the brakes if the game becomes less appealing

No that far removed from glt? Are you serious?

The goal line is a static object in a fixed position that never moves and is calibrated before each game.

The offside line is none of those things
 
No that far removed from glt? Are you serious?

The goal line is a static object in a fixed position that never moves and is calibrated before each game.

The offside line is none of those things
Errr...
I think you underestimate today's technology, let alone tomorrow's
 
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Rice, Delph and Barkley were big issues last night. Playing out from the back constantly requires the midfield to be always be on the move and receiving the ball on the half turn. Too many times they either didn’t provide an option, or they received the ball facing the player who made the pass meaning their only option was to play it backwards, against a high pressing Dutch side. We improved when Henderson came on because he did exactly that.

Whilst I respect that Southgate and the players were unwilling to change the tactical approach, surely somebody should be thinking it’s not working, just get rid of the ball
 
Rice, Delph and Barkley were big issues last night. Playing out from the back constantly requires the midfield to be always be on the move and receiving the ball on the half turn. Too many times they either didn’t provide an option, or they received the ball facing the player who made the pass meaning their only option was to play it backwards, against a high pressing Dutch side. We improved when Henderson came on because he did exactly that.

Whilst I respect that Southgate and the players were unwilling to change the tactical approach, surely somebody should be thinking it’s not working, just get rid of the ball
Not sure the tactics were much wrong, more the on field decision making process at the back......if there is no pass option....hoof it!
 
Errr...
I think you underestimate today's technology, let alone tomorrow's
I think you over estimate it.

Even if there was the technology available that could reliably and accurately make offside decisions quicker than a human it would be prohibitively expensive.
 
I'm sure with 5G and players wearing proximity tech it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of current technology to call 90% of all decisions now.
Offsides would be quite easy I'd say!!
 
I'm sure with 5G and players wearing proximity tech it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of current technology to call 90% of all decisions now.
Offsides would be quite easy I'd say!!
Ludicrous. It would require players to have sensors all over their bodies and cameras all over the place to work that out on the spot.
 
Ludicrous. It would require players to have sensors all over their bodies and cameras all over the place to work that out on the spot.
That comment is from Tomorrows World in 1976!! There is far far better tech available now!!! Far far better, you wouldn't even realise exists!!! ;)
 
I've seen a camera processor that can project a 50m x 50m full size picture on a wall 250metres away of say a woman face and then it can boom in at perfect clarity and distinguish between different flecks of eye mascara on an eyebrow hair. It has military uses too so I'll leave it at that!! lots I can't talk about!!
 
Ludicrous. It would require players to have sensors all over their bodies and cameras all over the place to work that out on the spot.
Not to mention the software needed to tie everything together and actually make the decision.

And then there's keeping track of the ball, and working out whether a defender deliberately played the ball to a player in an offside position, or was it a deflection.

Did a player in an offside position commit an offence without playing the ball i.e. blocking the goal keepers view etc
 
I've seen a camera processor that can project a 50m x 50m full size picture on a wall 250metres away of say a woman face and then it can boom in at perfect clarity and distinguish between different flecks of eye mascara on an eyebrow hair. It has military uses too so I'll leave it at that!! lots I can't talk about!!

There were cameras around in the 70s that could read a car number plate from a mile away so I wouldn't get too excited.
 
I've seen a camera processor that can project a 50m x 50m full size picture on a wall 250metres away of say a woman face and then it can boom in at perfect clarity and distinguish between different flecks of eye mascara on an eyebrow hair. It has military uses too so I'll leave it at that!! lots I can't talk about!!

Im sure they could do that in football as well, but that’s a different piece of technology. If it was easy to produce, they would have done it by now.
 
Im sure they could do that in football as well, but that’s a different piece of technology. If it was easy to produce, they would have done it by now.
It’s very possible now but it’s extremely expensive, classified and not really being used for this purpose, but it wouldn’t be that hard to do it!
 
It’s very possible now but it’s extremely expensive, classified and not really being used for this purpose, but it wouldn’t be that hard to do it!

Yes, it would be very hard to do it.

The best camera in the history of the world would give you a beautiful picture, but it can't make the decision about whether a player in an offside position has committed an offence.

If you want to remove the human from the decision making process then you need software to do this.

This software would need to be able to track every single player on and off the pitch along with match officials.

It would need to track the ball

It would need to be able to be able to process all of the footage from multiple camera angles, identify the player who kicks the ball, identify the exact moment their foot touches it, it would, at the same time have to identify the player in an offside position and determine whether they were offside when the ball was played.

In tight calls it would need to distinguish between a foot being offside or a hand for example.

It would need to be able to work out what was going on if the keeper goes up for a corner, and is not the last defending player.

It would need to be able to decide whether a player in an offside position has committed an offence without playing the ball, i.e. if they block the goal keepers vision.

It would need to decide whether a player has come back inside to play the ball

It would need to differentiate between two players going for the ball one who is offside and one who isn't etc.

Obviously there will be many many other considerations before we get on to the infrastructure and things like security for encrypted signals from sensors and cameras etc.
 
Yes, it would be very hard to do it.

The best camera in the history of the world would give you a beautiful picture, but it can't make the decision about whether a player in an offside position has committed an offence.

If you want to remove the human from the decision making process then you need software to do this.

This software would need to be able to track every single player on and off the pitch along with match officials.

It would need to track the ball

It would need to be able to be able to process all of the footage from multiple camera angles, identify the player who kicks the ball, identify the exact moment their foot touches it, it would, at the same time have to identify the player in an offside position and determine whether they were offside when the ball was played.

In tight calls it would need to distinguish between a foot being offside or a hand for example.

It would need to be able to work out what was going on if the keeper goes up for a corner, and is not the last defending player.

It would need to be able to decide whether a player in an offside position has committed an offence without playing the ball, i.e. if they block the goal keepers vision.

It would need to decide whether a player has come back inside to play the ball

It would need to differentiate between two players going for the ball one who is offside and one who isn't etc.

Obviously there will be many many other considerations before we get on to the infrastructure and things like security for encrypted signals from sensors and cameras etc.

Most of the first considerations already exist, big brother is already watching!!! The rest of it, yes, it would need work but its easier than you think!!
 
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