Dropped ball dilemma

[santa sangria]

I think you can justify a few different outcomes here based on what is and what isn’t in the laws.

GK, CK, IDFK, YC to MU player for delaying the restart, even YC to WHU player for USB. Or DB.

I think football expects a dropped ball on TV. At grassroots I think safe refereeing is just to tell the players: “again, properly” and to add time if appropriate.

 

[Anubis]

There is no such thing in law as contested or non-contested.
Think of it this way, if the opponents can't touch the ball after it touches the ground and in play, and the team the ball is dropped to is leading, they can just wait there for the rest of the game without touching the ball untill full time (assuming second half).

Disagree. The law does not need to specifically cover it. The general laws cover it.

The law requires the referee to drop the ball for one player of the team that last touched the ball. The ball is in play once touching the ground. There is no requirement for the player whom the ball was dropped to touching the ball.

Its like saying the law does not cover if the first player that touches the ball is a team mate of the one it was dropped to. Or saying the law does not cover if the player whom the ball was dropped to kicks it directly over the touch line. In both these cases the general laws cover them.

I can see this one going to an ifab email
like many wordings, I dont see this as clear cut
Nobody can touch the ball until it hits the ground, so that for me is why we have the ' in play when it touches the ground' text.
is it taken for granted that we are to assume the West Ham player must touch it first and its just not been wriiten in law.
or, indeed is it a free for all when ball touches ground

now that its happened , as usual, it will probably end up amended,

and no, if Man Utd kicked it out of play for a throw, ( until officially shown otherwise) am still going back to the dropped ball.

i do of course read the law and can make sense of the free for all idea

 

[socal lurker]

I haven't seen a clip yet, but have also seen another discussion. The rule isn't 4 meters until the ball is dropped but until it is in play (i.e. touches the ground). My *guess* is that the 4O or AR told him that the player got closer than 4 meters before the ball hit the ground, which is why it was a late whistle. (I don't agree that there has to be a caution if it is called back for a 4 meter violation. Yes, FRD is a cautionable offense, but it is also separately DB infraction that requires a re-do. This isn't like verbal distraction that can only result in a FK because the FK is the result of the USB caution.)

I think the real learning point for those of us who ref amongst mere mortals is to be sure that the player receiving the DB is ready and aware of what is happening before we drop the ball to avoid this type of morass. And if there is a problem, to whistle immediately rather than letting things develop.

 

[JamesL]

Sensible refereeing in my opinion.
In law, no issue with the Fernandes interception except maybeeee Martial was less than 4m away.
But Avoids any controversey having disallow a goal or a goal being allowed in error or from a keeper deflection.

 

[bester]

I haven't seen a clip yet, but have also seen another discussion. The rule isn't 4 meters until the ball is dropped but until it is in play (i.e. touches the ground). My *guess* is that the 4O or AR told him that the player got closer than 4 meters before the ball hit the ground, which is why it was a late whistle. (I don't agree that there has to be a caution if it is called back for a 4 meter violation. Yes, FRD is a cautionable offense, but it is also separately DB infraction that requires a re-do. This isn't like verbal distraction that can only result in a FK because the FK is the result of the USB caution.)

I think the real learning point for those of us who ref amongst mere mortals is to be sure that the player receiving the DB is ready and aware of what is happening before we drop the ball to avoid this type of morass. And if there is a problem, to whistle immediately rather than letting things develop.

Worth adding that failure to respect the required distance for drop ball was added at least one season after the drop ball law amendments.

The FA were using a law of the game question saying if two players of the team receiving the ball were within 4.5 yards then the non-receiver should be booked.

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

IFAB answered this in May:

 

[Anubis]

Can I reopen this with a never going to happen situation, which no doubt will happen.

Lets take this dropped ball example, the striker runs on, is just outside the box and is fouled, tripped, pulled back, whatever. Direct fk no red card as things stand, its not a goal scoring opportunity as nobody else has touched the ball?

 

[es1]

Can I reopen this with a never going to happen situation, which no doubt will happen.

Lets take this dropped ball example, the striker runs on, is just outside the box and is fouled, tripped, pulled back, whatever. Direct fk no red card as things stand, its not a goal scoring opportunity as nobody else has touched the ball?

love it!

is there perhaps a team mate they could pass too as, assuming the players know the law, it still could be DOGSO...but back in reality, i would agree, no red. good luck selling that!

 

[Anubis]

love it!

is there perhaps a team mate they could pass too as, assuming the players know the law, it still could be DOGSO...but back in reality, i would agree, no red. good luck selling that!

or chance they will blast it at gk and hope it hits gk on way in?

the mind boggles!

 

[one]

Can I reopen this with a never going to happen situation, which no doubt will happen.

Lets take this dropped ball example, the striker runs on, is just outside the box and is fouled, tripped, pulled back, whatever. Direct fk no red card as things stand, its not a goal scoring opportunity as nobody else has touched the ball?

I would answer this with the help of an image from another current thread. Barnsley v Forest



As it stands and foul from behind by the closest defender, DOGSO for me.

Same foul but take the yellow player in the centre out of the image, no DOGSO.

or chance they will blast it at gk and hope it hits gk on way in?

the mind boggles!

This is not something that would 'obviously' happen. So no DOGSO.

 

[Anubis]

I would answer this with the help of an image from another current thread. Barnsley v Forest

View attachment 5201

As it stands and could from behind by the closest defender, DOGSO for me.

Same foul but take the yellow player in the centre out of the image, no DOGSO.


This is not something that would 'obviously' happen. So no DOGSO.

good example.

Dogso for me tho with or without the yellow in the middle for me,

 

[one]

good example.

Dogso for me tho with or without the yellow in the middle for me,

Why would you think it's DOGSO without the yellow in the middle? He would have to score it off another defender. What are the chances of that?

 

[Anubis]

Why would you think it's DOGSO without the yellow in the middle? He would have to score it off another defender. What are the chances of that?

crossed wires sorry

i thought you were simply meaning dogso, i guess now you are relating it to the dropped ball example

 

[Tim - 2013]

Clip of the dropped ball. Looks like he's proper distance. To me, GK as there was no other player's touch.

 

[Tim - 2013]

Okay, here's something I didn't realize and now have to watch.

Dropped ball procedure

"All other players (of both teams) must remain 4m (4.5yds) from the ball until it is in play."

So, the ball was in play when it touched the ground, but I see at least three players, other than Fernandes, that is too close.

I'm used to making sure opponents are 4m away, but I forgot its both teams!

 

[wazztie16]

Clip of the dropped ball. Looks like he's proper distance. To me, GK as there was no other player's touch.

It would cause uproar at grass roots, but that's a perfectly legal DP.

Edit -
After seeing the comment on 4.5 yards, now I'm wondering...

 

[spuddy1878]

Its an awful drop from Moss, he drops it in between the two players (although Fernandes is far more alert) and not really to the West Ham player.

Fernandes is on the move as it leaves Moss hands but by the time it hits the floor no way is he the required distance.

 

[NOVARef]

Didn't a man United player put it into opponents goal? That means a goal kick. There is nothing in there saying "the opponent of the team which the ball was dropped to"

So does everyone agree it would be a goal kick assuming their were no other issues.