The Ref Stop

DOGSO

If you give the foul it has to be DOGSO, but I don't think it is a foul. Attacker has felt contact and thrown himself to the ground, and he actually committed the first foul.
 
The Ref Stop
JamesL said:
A new learning platform for level 4 and above refs from the FA. Its a library of documents and videos for discussions/clarifications etc.
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Last I heard US Soccer budgeted $750,000 for a new online training system for referees. I'm curious to see what we get out of our "investment" from registration fees.
 
RefJef said:
When considering DOGSO, do we also need to consider the standard of football we are officiating on?

When I’m right down in the roots and weeds of grassroots football, I’m not sure I’d back many players to carry the ball a third of the length of the pitch and then beat the keeper.

Should I be factoring this in? Genuine question.

Thanks
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It's obvious OPPORTUNITY.

Even an U/8 player can dribble the ball. You can't defend a decision of not sending a defender off because 'yeah, you were going to be 1 on 1 but we all know you were going to screw it up'

RobOda said:
My gut feeling is saying this isn't DOSGO. I'm not convinced it is anyway, I don't think he's going to get into a good position if he gets beyond that defender and I have half an eye on the defender coming over to cover up top, I dunno it just doesn't scream DOSGO for me - mind you I share @Big Cat 's first impression it might not even be a foul...

@JamesL 's clip is a pretty easy DOSGO though, clean on, two supporting strikers, no chance any defender is getting near him.
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You're going to have to come up with something better than that.

What DOGSO criteria hasn't been met?

Don't think he's going to get into a good position - what are you talking about? He's heading towards goal and if he gets past the defender it's only the keeper to beat. There's another defender, but can that defender intercept before the attacker is in shooting distance? No chance.

If all the criteria for DOGSO are met and your response is 'nah, just don't feel like it'....well, you need to give the RC otherwise you're making a critical error.

Personally I'm not convinced it wasn't a dive, but if the foul is given, this is a red card.
 
RobOda said:
As I said, I don't think it's an obvious opportunity.

But then, I wouldn't be giving that decision anyway.
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The clip in question is a mirror copy of the training clip posted by James. I think sometimes people's view might get (wrongly) clouded by the distance involved.
Aberdeen have appealed it, it goes to a 3 man ex top flight referee panel. Given the ref on the day is Scotlands most decorated official, if the 3 man panel dismiss the appeal, is that enough convincing that it's a red card ?
 
Ciley Myrus said:
The clip in question is a mirror copy of the training clip posted by James. I think sometimes people's view might get (wrongly) clouded by the distance involved.
Aberdeen have appealed it, it goes to a 3 man ex top flight referee panel. Given the ref on the day is Scotlands most decorated official, if the 3 man panel dismiss the appeal, is that enough convincing that it's a red card ?
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Of course, I'm not so inflexible to not change my view on the matter. :)
 
Again, nobody is saying even after that, that the ultimate correct call has been made, but, I think taking their stance on the call might be wise (of course leaving aside any potential accusations of politics etc)
 
RobOda said:
As I said, I don't think it's an obvious opportunity.

But then, I wouldn't be giving that decision anyway.
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Why? What are you basing that on?

You've already said 2 things which are completely incorrect - you said the attacker wouldn't get into a good position after passing the defender, when I pointed out that some 35-40 yards out from goal he's running towards goal, and would be running directly to goal after passing that defender so no reason to think that. And you pointed out another defender some 5-10 yards behind - but as I said, that defender has no chance of reaching the striker before they reach shooting range.

So what are you basing your claim on?
 
I really think the wording in the laws need looking at.

What is an opportunity to score ?

Remember Jason Cundy scoring from a block tackle from 5 yards inside his own half, if you're asking is the video above an opportunity then it clearly is.

Just to thrown another spanner in the works, Dermot Gallagher said on sky yesterday one thing you take into consideration is the distance to goal, is it time to bring in a line between the edge of the penalty box (like a subbuteo pitch)
 
spuddy1878 said:
I really think the wording in the laws need looking at.

What is an opportunity to score ?

Remember Jason Cundy scoring from a block tackle from 5 yards inside his own half, if you're asking is the video above an opportunity then it clearly is.

Just to thrown another spanner in the works, Dermot Gallagher said on sky yesterday one thing you take into consideration is the distance to goal, is it time to bring in a line between the edge of the penalty box (like a subbuteo pitch)
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Fundamentally disagree. Whilst DOGSO is more complex than other laws, for me it is also completely clear.

Key point is that it's not just 'an opportunity' to score. It's an OBVIOUS goal scoring opportunity. And the guidance is straightforward ... Consider Distance to goal, Direction of movement, presence of covering Defenders and whether attacker is (or will be) in control of the ball. So, lots to consider but no intrinsic confusion
 
spuddy1878 said:
Has there ever been (or would you ever give) a red for an incident which took place in the defending teams half ?
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No idea and yes, but only in very extreme circumstances (like end of a game with goalie sent up for corner and then other team starts quick break away)
 
spuddy1878 said:
Has there ever been (or would you ever give) a red for an incident which took place in the defending teams half ?
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That's not all that relevant because circumstances in which this could occur are quite rare; and the sanction for it even rarer
 
So a player who is brought down 60 yards from goal brought by last defender (with a GK in) is not a RED but it is if its 45 yards ?
 
spuddy1878 said:
So a player who is brought down 60 yards from goal brought by last defender (with a GK in) is not a RED but it is if its 45 yards ?
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No, you're basing your criteria for DOGSO on one variable; distance from goal
This one variable would not be linear, but other variables are available...
I could see a situation in the dying minutes when the keeper (and all his defenders) gets ideas of an equalizer from a corner, in which a DOGSO could happen merely yards from the attacking team's own PA on the counter, but i can't recall it ever happening
Ultimately, you just have to determine 'obvious', based on the criteria
 
spuddy1878 said:
Has there ever been (or would you ever give) a red for an incident which took place in the defending teams half ?
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It certainly can happen.
The problem with the ones from a long way out is that all things considered equal, running with the ball slows the attacker down. So there's a much greater chance that a defender will intercept.
A defender level, but 10 yards away from 50 yards out will almost certainly be able to intercept. A defender level but 10 yards away from 30 yards out won't be able to intercept by the time they get into shooting range (Personally, I tend to think of that as being around 25 yards, depending on age/skill and whether the keeper is in goals).

So you could have DOGSO 60,70, 80 yards out from goal....but the attacker would need to have a really strong lead on any defenders other than the one making the tackle.

Now, it's not all that uncommon for a lone striker to be up with a lone defender from a corner. But normally if the striker receives the ball, they're facing away from goal and are stationary, meaning the other defenders, while being far behind, are already sprinting before the attacker is.

So the ref needs to not just look at the relative position, but the speed difference (and this applies to all DOGSO cases).
 
Russell Jones said:
It's a great example of why learning materials such as this are so valuable. Because (surprisingly for me) around 25% of the L4's who commented on the clip were recommending Yellow, largely because of the distance to the goal
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The proportion of Observers recommending yellow on the basis of distance from goal was significantly higher than that. The value of HIVE is that it provides consistency of message across the country and across the officials and observers who will watch/report on them. It's a great tool. I log in most days to check on postings.
 
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