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Deliberate Trick?

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Never ever an offence. Would be seriously worried for any referee who penalised this in a game.
 
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I’m in the not a trick camp. I definitely think there could be more guidance, but if there was never a foot involved, I don’t think it’s a trick at all. It’s a heads up play to use a part of the body that is permitted to play the ball to the keeper to handle. Circumvention, as noted above, was created to get past obvious ploys. I don’t recall ever seeing it called or a IFAB or any other authority giving an example of circumvention that didn’t involve transforming a ball the GK could not touch into one he could—the kick up to one’s own head or back for a FK or GK being the key examples. I would be shocked if any professional referee remotely considered whistling for an offense here.
 
RustyRef said:
I think we perhaps need to remember why the law was introduced. Players were flicking the ball up and heading it back, or the keeper was throwing it to a defender who was heading it back. They were very obviously deliberate tricks, I personally don't think this was.
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Or they were kneeling down to pass it back with their knee.

"Examples of such tricks would include: a player who deliberately flicks the ball with his feet up onto his head in order to head the ball to his goalkeeper; or, a player who kneels down and deliberately pushes the ball to the goalkeeper with his knee, etc."
 
Is a first time diving header to keeper at a ball that is knee high a trick and if so is it to circumvent the law when there is a much easier chance to inside foot pass?

How a bout this scenario, a high ball coming to a defender with no attacker around to challenge. Easy option is to trap it with foot or head it. But he chests the ball up first, then bounces off his shoulder and then heads it to keeper. Is this an offence?
 
one said:
Is a first time diving header to keeper at a ball that is knee high a trick and if so is it to circumvent the law when there is a much easier chance to inside foot pass?
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Heading the ball at knee height? 🟨

one said:
How a bout this scenario, a high ball coming to a defender with no attacker around to challenge. Easy option is to trap it with foot or head it. But he chests the ball up first, then bounces off his shoulder and then heads it to keeper. Is this an offence?
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If the ball's already coming to him at head or chest height, he's not doing anything to circumvent the law as far as I can see.
 
For those who may not share your view, which part of Law 12 do you consider did not apply when this player knelt down to play the ball along the ground?
"initiates a deliberate trick for the ball to be passed (including from a free kick or goal kick) to the goalkeeper with the head, chest, knee etc. to circumvent the Law"
CA1992 said:
Never ever an offence. Would be seriously worried for any referee who penalised this in a game.
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ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
For those who may not share your view, which part of Law 12 do you consider did not apply when this player knelt down to play the ball along the ground?
"initiates a deliberate trick for the ball to be passed (including from a free kick or goal kick) to the goalkeeper with the head, chest, knee etc. to circumvent the Law"
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I didn't deem it an offence as, to me, a trick would involve some level of skill to perform and/or intending to deceive... and this has neither.
 
bester said:
Or they were kneeling down to pass it back with their knee.

"Examples of such tricks would include: a player who deliberately flicks the ball with his feet up onto his head in order to head the ball to his goalkeeper; or, a player who kneels down and deliberately pushes the ball to the goalkeeper with his knee, etc."
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Also please see: https://asktheref.com/Search.asp?QuestionID=32318
And perhaps the esteemed @Peter Grove could bring more context.

IFAB circular 488, as posted above, clearly included this very scenario ”the player going to ground to knee, head the ball and deliberately pushes the ball to the goalkeeper with the knee or head” as an example of an offence.

I think the law has not changed. The authority says this is an offence.
 
I can remember one from years ago where a defender, I’m going to say it was Steven Taylor but may be wrong, who laid down the floor to head the ball back to the keeper. That wasn’t penalised.
 
santa sangria said:
IFAB circular 488, as posted above, clearly included this very scenario ”the player going to ground to knee, head the ball and deliberately pushes the ball to the goalkeeper with the knee or head” as an example of an offence.
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ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
The trick is using another body part when the foot is the obvious one.
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There we go, then! Every day’s a school day 👍🏻

I’ll definitely being using code REFCHAT5 at checkout to save 5% on my order of XXL shorts should I ever have the big brass balls to call this 😂
 
RustyRef said:
I can remember one from years ago where a defender, I’m going to say it was Steven Taylor but may be wrong, who laid down the floor to head the ball back to the keeper. That wasn’t penalised.
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It was Taylor - and absolutely should have been penalised.
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
For those who may not share your view, which part of Law 12 do you consider did not apply when this player knelt down to play the ball along the ground?
"initiates a deliberate trick for the ball to be passed (including from a free kick or goal kick) to the goalkeeper with the head, chest, knee etc. to circumvent the Law"
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The last four words do not apply.
 
one said:
The last four words do not apply.
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How is it not circumventing the law? The ball is at his feet, and he has used another body part in order to play the ball back to his goalkeeper to catch in order to prevent any possibility of the attacker nearby gaining possession/shooting.
 
ARF said:
How is it not circumventing the law? The ball is at his feet, and he has used another body part in order to play the ball back to his goalkeeper to catch in order to prevent any possibility of the attacker nearby gaining possession/shooting.
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Which part of the law says player are to use the obvious option or the simplest option available to them to playe the ball?
 
santa sangria said:
Also please see: https://asktheref.com/Search.asp?QuestionID=32318
And perhaps the esteemed @Peter Grove could bring more context.

IFAB circular 488, as posted above, clearly included this very scenario ”the player going to ground to knee, head the ball and deliberately pushes the ball to the goalkeeper with the knee or head” as an example of an offence.

I think the law has not changed. The authority says this is an offence.
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By bad. I totally did not remember that guidance. I picture the intent of that example to be a static scenario rather than active play and close action, but it does support the idea of a call here. I still think a no call is the better call on the dynamic play.
 
santa sangria said:
Also please see: https://asktheref.com/Search.asp?QuestionID=32318
And perhaps the esteemed @Peter Grove could bring more context.

IFAB circular 488, as posted above, clearly included this very scenario ”the player going to ground to knee, head the ball and deliberately pushes the ball to the goalkeeper with the knee or head” as an example of an offence.

I think the law has not changed. The authority says this is an offence.
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I don't trust ifab's interpretation from two weeks ago, you want me to trust it from two decades ago? 🤣

I think we can say, from time to time, ifab's interpretations are 'questionable'.
 
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