The Ref Stop

Deliberate Touch ..?

Alex71

Alex71

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Blue vs Yellow

Blue CM tries to play the ball over the top towards a Blue CF who is in an off-side position

Yellow CB (20 yards from where Blue CM played the ball) deliberately jumps in the air to try to intercept - but only succeeds in deflecting the ball onto Blue CF

Blue CF receives ball - controls - it - shoots - scores

Goal or no Goal !?!?
 
The Ref Stop
I guess it would depend on how I saw the 'deflection' as the match referee. I'm thinking go with offside when i read your o/p
 
Any deliberate attempt to play the ball, regardless of outcome, remains a deliberate action. Goal for me.

Deflection is where the ball unwittingly strikes a player, rather than the other way around.

Either way, one team won't be happy. :)
 
The distinction - i think - may be that the defender made a conscious attempt ("deliberate") attempt to play the ball ... if he does something deliberate - does it then actually matter where the ball goes to (i.e. how good is touch on the ball is) ..?

[ if the ball had gone forward on the floor to him and he had a wild hack at it and sliced it on to the "offside CF" - still offside ..? ]

I gave the offside - which i thought was "safe refereeing" (what most expected) - but - I am thinking along lines of Supermonkey's reply
 
We had it come up at our preseason conference. It was drilled into us, don't worry about where the ball goes, only think about whether the individual deliberately tried to play the ball.

Offside seems more complex now than ever. Players have never understood it, spectators even less so and we referees get to try and enforce it! :)
 
Supermonkey said:
We had it come up at our preseason conference. It was drilled into us, don't worry about where the ball goes, only think about whether the individual deliberately tried to play the ball.

Offside seems more complex now than ever. Players have never understood it, spectators even less so and we referees get to try and enforce it! :)
Click to expand...

... so let's referee for the spectators and not to Law ;)
 
Supermonkey said:
Any deliberate attempt to play the ball, regardless of outcome, remains a deliberate action. Goal for me.
Click to expand...

Interpretation of the lotg talks about a defender deliberately playing the ball, not deliberately jumping or deliberately attempting

If the ball skimmed off the defender's hair for example, is that a case of 'deliberately playing the ball'

Dictionary definition of deliberate talks of doing something 'consciously and intentionally'

Did the player intend for the ball to skim off his head when he made his conscious attempt to head the ball.....you tell me :)
 
In this example - the player deliberately played at the ball - the outcome of which however was not what he intended ... had he not jumped then the ball would have sailed over his head ...

... is this a conscious attempt to play the ball - I think yes (although on Sunday I went with no!)
 
You cannot possibly know where a player "intends" to play the ball. You can guess but not know. You can be reasonably sure, however, if he is trying to play the ball.

Otherwise any rubbish pass would not be considered deliberate?
 
Nope - as usual it's vague - the only word on the subject in the LOTG are page 108 - a player in a offside position receiving the ball from an opponent, who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save), is not considered to have gained an advantage.

It seems pretty clear in its vagueness. :)
 
Supermonkey said:
Nope - as usual it's vague - the only word on the subject in the LOTG are page 108 - a player in a offside position receiving the ball from an opponent, who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save), is not considered to have gained an advantage.

It seems pretty clear in its vagueness. :)
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It does, Monkey :)

though now i'm beginning to wonder how we can tell whether a goalkeeper has made a deliberate save or if he just got lucky

does that mean that if the ball hits the keeper in the face, or on the @rse, and rebounds to the striker that the striker is then deemed not to be gaining an advantage
 
It's easy.

"Deliberately" means that the opponent intended to play the ball in the manner and direction that they did......anything else is a deflection i.e. unintentional or uncontrolled.
 
It says nothing about direction in the tiny little explaining paragraph, just that it is a deliberate attempt to play the ball. Or is there another secret paragraph I am overlooking?
 
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A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent, who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save), is not considered to have gained an advantage.
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Nothing about "attempts" in there?
 
Offside, everyone expects it so why disapoint, I'm this case, referee to the spectators and everyone else on the pitch :)
 
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