A&H

Deliberate play for offside

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Redref34

Well-Known Member
Level 5 Referee
Ball played into penalty area from a free kick about 40 yards out.

Player in offside position.

Defender jumps and goes to head it clear but mistimed it and it glances off and goes to attacker who scores. Given offside.

Correct? I can find the bit in the law which says it but can’t quite picture the correct outcome in my head.
 
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Hard to be certain without seeing the incident.

First consideration would be whether or not the player in the offside position interfered with an opponent. Assuming they didn't, then it would all depend on whether the play on the ball by the defender constituted a deliberate play. If they had ample time, space and ability to play the ball but made an error in judgement, then the goal should be allowed as onside, however in most scenarios as described I would imagine there would likely be a mitigating factor to enable this to not be considered a deliberate play and therefore offside would be correct. The law wording of what constitutes a deliberate play is as follows:

Deliberate play’ is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:

  • passing the ball to a team-mate; or
  • gaining possession of the ball; or
  • clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it).


If the pass, attempt to gain possession or clearance by the player in control of the ball is inaccurate or unsuccessful, this does not negate the fact that the player ‘deliberately played’ the ball.

The following criteria should be used, as appropriate, as indicators that a player was in control of the ball and, as a result, ‘deliberately played’ the ball:

  • The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view of it
  • The ball was not moving quickly
  • The direction of the ball was not unexpected
  • The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved limited contact/control
  • A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the air
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JoetheRef said:
Sounds to me like it would be a stretch to say that he had control of the ball if it's a mistimed glancing header.
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What if ball is travelling in air for 30/40 yards / goes up for header and ends up flicking it on when he meant to clear it but could only get a bit on it.

Or if he was challenged by an opponent that was onside.. would that be classed as not a deliberate act as he was under pressure?
 
JamesL said:
Thought this was going to be a thread about players deliberately being offside.

Sounds like an offside offence. Usual you had to be there caveats however, ball in the air, glancing off opponent is not normally considered a deliberate play.
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Changed!
 
Redref34 said:
What if ball is travelling in air for 30/40 yards / goes up for header and ends up flicking it on when he meant to clear it but could only get a bit on it.

Or if he was challenged by an opponent that was onside.. would that be classed as not a deliberate act as he was under pressure?
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Lots of whataboutery, but in both scenario's a case could be made either way depending on each specific scenario. @RefereeX posted the list of conditions for a deliberate play
 
Sounds like it ticks almost all the boxes for deliberate play. There is the point about a ball in the air being harder to play, but seems the defender had opportunity to anticipate the ball trajectory, decide the ball was playable and execute their attempt to play it.
 
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Deliberate play’ is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:

passing the ball to a team-mate; or
gaining possession of the ball; or
clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading
it).

I don't see how a player who has mistimed a header and ended up flicking the ball on can have been in control of the ball. Therefore it seems to me as though offside was the correct call.
 
Redref34 said:
What if ball is travelling in air for 30/40 yards / goes up for header and ends up flicking it on when he meant to clear it but could only get a bit on it.

Or if he was challenged by an opponent that was onside.. would that be classed as not a deliberate act as he was under pressure?
Click to expand...
If a player can 'only get a bit on it', through no fault of their own, then this is almost certain to be classed as a deflection.

Being challenged by an onside opponent is less categoric but this is certainly a significant consideration that also leans you towards a deflection.

For what it's worth, despite multiple video clips and numerous "clarifications", this remains the most contentious and challenging decision point within Law 11 overall. As an example, I have a friend who is a Championship AR ... in a recent game, he and the referee both believed they had seen a deliberate play and got fully backed by the observer on the day. The correctness of the decision to allow the goal has just been 'overturned' by the KMI panel.
 
Russell Jones said:
If a player can 'only get a bit on it', through no fault of their own, then this is almost certain to be classed as a deflection.

Being challenged by an onside opponent is less categoric but this is certainly a significant consideration that also leans you towards a deflection.

For what it's worth, despite multiple video clips and numerous "clarifications", this remains the most contentious and challenging decision point within Law 11 overall. As an example, I have a friend who is a Championship AR ... in a recent game, he and the referee both believed they had seen a deliberate play and got fully backed by the observer on the day. The correctness of the decision to allow the goal has just been 'overturned' by the KMI panel.
Click to expand...

So essentially.. a bit like a deliberate backpass to the goalkeeper - it has to be 100% deliberate .. therefore, in a practical sense, go on the side of caution and in favour of the defending team when thinking about making these calls.
 
CaptainsPlease said:
Sounds like it ticks almost all the boxes for deliberate play. There is the point about a ball in the air being harder to play, but seems the defender had opportunity to anticipate the ball trajectory, decide the ball was playable and execute their attempt to play it.
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I find myself agreeing.
I don't believe the defender has to actually make contact with the ball.
 
Kes said:
I find myself agreeing.
I don't believe the defender has to actually make contact with the ball.
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Eh? Attacker crosses it in, defender 'deliberately attempts to play the ball' but doesn't actually make contact. Team mate of attacker in offside position touches the ball. Are you saying the defender's 'deliberate attempt' resets offside? Surly I am misinterpreting what you are saying.
 
one said:
Eh? Attacker crosses it in, defender 'deliberately attempts to play the ball' but doesn't actually make contact. Team mate of attacker in offside position touches the ball. Are you saying the defender's 'deliberate attempt' resets offside? Surly I am misinterpreting what you are saying.
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I think what he's saying (although I could be wrong) is that if he doesn't think the defender needs to make contact with the ball then he's more likely to deem it a deliberate play. (Well I hope that's what he's saying anyway 😆 )
 
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At grassroots I'm broadly going with if the header doesn't significantly change the direction the ball was traveling in then it's not a deliberate play.
 
one said:
Eh? Attacker crosses it in, defender 'deliberately attempts to play the ball' but doesn't actually make contact. Team mate of attacker in offside position touches the ball. Are you saying the defender's 'deliberate attempt' resets offside? Surly I am misinterpreting what you are saying.
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What do the LOTG say, and in particular, the IFAB circular clarifying this (from which I believe the above extract from RefereeX is dervied(?) sort of situation.

I'll be honest, in the scenario described in the OP, I'm more than likely just giving the offside in my game since it's a very subjective set of circumstances and is likely what most of the players would expect to happen but I (somewhat tongue-in-cheek) agreed with what CaptainsPlease said since (as per the currently written LOTG) his reasons are justification enough.
 
RefereeX said:
I think what he's saying (although I could be wrong) is that if he doesn't think the defender needs to make contact with the ball then he's more likely to deem it a deliberate play. (Well I hope that's what he's saying anyway 😆 )
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Not far off. But simply, if the defender has time and intent to play the ball (whether he touches it or not) and the attacker isn't impacting his ability to do so, then if he makes a pig's ear of it, then the attacker hasn't committed an offside offence. At least that's what the LOTG say.
 
Kes said:
What do the LOTG say, and in particular, the IFAB circular clarifying this (from which I believe the above extract from RefereeX is dervied(?) sort of situation.
Click to expand...

Kes said:
Not far off. But simply, if the defender has time and intent to play the ball (whether he touches it or not) and the attacker isn't impacting his ability to do so, then if he makes a pig's ear of it, then the attacker hasn't committed an offside offence. At least that's what the LOTG say.
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In the lotg, the circular and any clarification, the defender making contact with the ball is an absolute must to even start any deliberations (excuse the pun) of deliberate play vs deflection. No defender contact then it's a plain old 'simple' standard onside/offside decision.

To be clear the defender MUST actually make contact with the ball, for any chance the OP can be given onside.
 
Agree with @one if the defender does not touch the ball then the attackers position at the moment it was last played or touched by a teammate is to be used. Only when a defender touches the ball can we start to think about whether it was a deliberate play and offside is "reset" or not.
 
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