The Ref Stop

Definition of 'Advantage'

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PinnerPaul

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Interesting scenario near the end of a close ( 1 goal in it) and good standard U18s independent schools friendly yesterday.

About a minute to go of added time, winning team attacking, player gets taken out, I blow for free kick, even though ball runs to an attacking player.

"No advantage?" asks a player, Me: "More of an advantage for you to have a free kick with so little time left". Oppo player not happy with that, " So you're favouring them?" he said.

My logic was that the most benefit should always go the team against who the foul has been committed, but thinking it about it now, seems a little contrived on my part - should I have just played the advantage, without trying to be 'clever' about it?
 
The Ref Stop
PinnerPaul said:
Interesting scenario near the end of a close ( 1 goal in it) and good standard U18s independent schools friendly yesterday.

About a minute to go of added time, winning team attacking, player gets taken out, I blow for free kick, even though ball runs to an attacking player.

"No advantage?" asks a player, Me: "More of an advantage for you to have a free kick with so little time left". Oppo player not happy with that, " So you're favouring them?" he said.

My logic was that the most benefit should always go the team against who the foul has been committed, but thinking it about it now, seems a little contrived on my part - should I have just played the advantage, without trying to be 'clever' about it
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No, you just need to be more clever in what you say and manage the final moments. A simple “No advantage there, player. Let’s have this free kick on my whistle, please.” Let a few seconds tick away and get away from the kicker.
 
Maybe just go with the generic; "Sorry, didn't think the advantage was on" next time, as it seems to be the explanation that was digging the hole rather than the call itself?
 
a senior prominet manager here was forceful with this, he wanted the fk every time
on the basis he had practised set pieces and the best advantage, for them , was the foul.
so as ref, WE might deem it advantage, but, if we describe advantage as, the better option is to play on, we are at loggerheads

this op is the opposite,. However, the fk sounds the best option, as if the move breaks down, you have nowhere to go.

safe refereeing, is the fk
and its hard to fault that,

as you point out, winning team taken out, fk means they keep control of the ball in the dying seconds. that to me sounds a better outcome than playing on
 
Interesting question. I think I’d still give advantage—I don’t think the Laws really want us to consider time that way in making the decision. I think the focus is supposed to be on the elements of field play. but I agree with the comments above that if you do factor it in, I wouldn’t advertise it.
 
What you are actually saying is that there was no benefit for the non-offending team to allow play to continue.

I don't think you were too clever about your choice of action but too clever about your choice of words. Instead of saying there was no advantage (which is what you thought) you kind of said there was advantage in a free kick and opened yourself to misinterpretation.

So to answered your question, you should not have player advantage because there was none and no you should not have been too clever about it :)
 
Yampy said:
No, you just need to be more clever in what you say and manage the final moments. A simple “No advantage there, player. Let’s have this free kick on my whistle, please.” Let a few seconds tick away and get away from the kicker.
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Thanks - excellent point - wasn't the action that was the problem, more my 'sell'.
 
I've long thought that a lot of referees don't really understand advantage at lower levels, where the skill level often means that the free kick would benefit them more than the advantage. Unless the fouled player is moving into acres of space a goal is very unlikely to result from the advantage, and I cringe when I see advantages given in areas like the joint of the touchline and half way line with most defending players back. They have a vastly better chance of scoring from a free kick clumped into the penalty area than they do from an advantage there.

Likewise when referees play advantage for a foul central and within shooting distance and the ball has gone out side. Yes, from an advantage they might score from a subsequent cross but I'd say the chance of that is massively lower than scoring from the free kick that would have been awarded without the advantage.
 
RustyRef said:
I've long thought that a lot of referees don't really understand advantage at lower levels, where the skill level often means that the free kick would benefit them more than the advantage. Unless the fouled player is moving into acres of space a goal is very unlikely to result from the advantage, and I cringe when I see advantages given in areas like the joint of the touchline and half way line with most defending players back. They have a vastly better chance of scoring from a free kick clumped into the penalty area than they do from an advantage there.

Likewise when referees play advantage for a foul central and within shooting distance and the ball has gone out side. Yes, from an advantage they might score from a subsequent cross but I'd say the chance of that is massively lower than scoring from the free kick that would have been awarded without the advantage.
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Part of the problem is that teams think they want advantage in some of these situations too. Deep in own half - "have a look ref, can't you play advantage there" in the Dog and Duck Division 9 Sunday League. 🤣
 
Justylove said:
Part of the problem is that teams think they want advantage in some of these situations too. Deep in own half - "have a look ref, can't you play advantage there" in the Dog and Duck Division 9 Sunday League. 🤣
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I was reading the thread preparing to make exactly this point. At grassroots when you're on your own, part of the equation to consider is if the teams think they can make something out of an advantage, possibly more important to consider than the reality of if they can or not.

I can think of multiple occasions where I've given a FK in a team's own half and the player has been frustrated because he has escaped the foul and assumes he's just about to ping a 50-yard diagonal ball directly onto the toes of his striker, or go on a mazy run down the wing. Similarly, I know for a fact that the games that result in the most handshakes at the end from both sides are the ones where I rarely have to stop play. Last weekend I had a match where that was down to two incredibly "clean" teams, but often it's down to liberal use of either advantage or the "that's trifling, play on" advantage-ish no-calls.
 
GraemeS said:
I was reading the thread preparing to make exactly this point. At grassroots when you're on your own, part of the equation to consider is if the teams think they can make something out of an advantage, possibly more important to consider than the reality of if they can or not.

I can think of multiple occasions where I've given a FK in a team's own half and the player has been frustrated because he has escaped the foul and assumes he's just about to ping a 50-yard diagonal ball directly onto the toes of his striker, or go on a mazy run down the wing. Similarly, I know for a fact that the games that result in the most handshakes at the end from both sides are the ones where I rarely have to stop play. Last weekend I had a match where that was down to two incredibly "clean" teams, but often it's down to liberal use of either advantage or the "that's trifling, play on" advantage-ish no-calls.
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In a friendly this season, had similar happen. Defender gets away from a foul I blow for free kick. Cue adantage ref.

2nd half same happens, give advantage this time loses ball and concedes goal.

And yes I did make the point that it was he in the first half wanted advantage there... 😁
 
JamesL said:
In a friendly this season, had similar happen. Defender gets away from a foul I blow for free kick. Cue adantage ref.

2nd half same happens, give advantage this time loses ball and concedes goal.

And yes I did make the point that it was he in the first half wanted advantage there... 😁
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Am guilty of doing this on purpose sometimes
Having sensibly stopped for the fk the first time, against my own better judgement I allow a weak advantage the next time,
For no other reason than to prove its best leaving me as referee to call the shots

maybe not best practise but if thats what they want, then, thats what they shall get
 
Anubis said:
Am guilty of doing this on purpose sometimes
Having sensibly stopped for the fk the first time, against my own better judgement I allow a weak advantage the next time,
For no other reason than to prove its best leaving me as referee to call the shots

maybe not best practise but if thats what they want, then, thats what they shall get
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Yes I took the opportunity to do so as it was a friendly and was being played in the right manner.

The defender and I actually had a laugh about it.

There are obviously circumstances where this approach is clearly not appropriate and as I say in a more fiercely competed friendly or competitive game I am unlikely to take such a risk
 
JamesL said:
Yes I took the opportunity to do so as it was a friendly and was being played in the right manner.

The defender and I actually had a laugh about it.

There are obviously circumstances where this approach is clearly not appropriate and as I say in a more fiercely competed friendly or competitive game I am unlikely to take such a risk
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Absolutely.
 
I just give the players what they want. None of my business to tell them what they're capable of. Players tend to want the opportunity to play football
 
Big Cat said:
I just give the players what they want. None of my business to tell them what they're capable of. Players tend to want the opportunity to play football
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I (sort of) go along with that.

You get a feel for a game - especially in the 2nd half and just instinctively know when you should simply let that trifling foul go because the player has stayed on his feet and wants to carry on. These are the times when I just let play run, signifying with my arms that I've seen it, but that we're carrying on. It's sensible refereeing and shows a level of player empathy.
At grass roots, not every game allows you to do this but many do. To debunk that notion is just naive.
 
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