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Dead ball deception

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Big Cat

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#81
Retake is the one thing it can't be, that isn't supported in law at all. It is either allowed and you play on or an IDFK for playing the ball twice.

As I said earlier, if you see it happen and don't want a riot on your hands just should very loudly "ball in play". We tell players not to foul each other, so no season we can't tell them that a corner has been taken … :)
Yes, sorry
Didnt engage the brain. IDFK it is then, but they're not running in on goal with me there. Being pedantic, i'm also not awarding an IDFK every time a player rolls the ball around in the corner arc with the foot, prior to taking the corner. I'm wrong in Law on both, but spirit of the game is intended for these situations imo
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#84
Great way to spice up a boring game, give yourself some flipping action, You can game manage in many ways, you can add to the fun / mayhem too! Completely legal play, not your problem if they ain’t set up ready! :)
 
#85
One thing I've found interesting since joining this forum is the amount of comments about selling decisions, giving decisions a certain way because of the reaction, it's easier to give X even though X isn't right by law because I'd rather X happened than give Y and deal with the potential uproar.

It's something I've always done, more so as I got more experienced but I've never ever refereed like that. I just referee the game and give what I think is right, not what the easy or expected call is. For example, a defender might be shielding the ball in his defensive corner and an attacker might challenge and give the defender a really light touch. The defender goes down. This drives me crazy when I see it on TV. You know what's going to happen before it happens. I feel like the "easy or game management" call is to give the defender a free-kick because there's no harm done and it's easy to face the noise of the attacker moaning for a second. Now, if you don't give the foul, let the attacker collect the ball whilst the defender is on the floor and the attacking team scores five seconds later, what happens? The attentions on you, the defending team is moaning, the manager is moaning, you have to deal with the moaning after the game "ref that was a foul on our left back blah blah blah". It might just be me, but if I don't think it's a foul then I'm not giving a foul full stop. If I have to deal with any uproar or moaning, I'm happy to go to war if the defender has gone down easily, played for a foul and not actually deserving of a free-kick.

On this subject, if I don't see what's gone on then I'll probably end up giving an IDFK and say "you can't dribble from a corner mate" because I wouldn't have seen the touch but if I know what's going on or/and I see what's going on then I play on. It's rare the defending team will be completely unaware. Usually you'll get a defender either steaming in after the first touch, and if that happens you just play on and the attacking team look silly but sometimes the attacking team will claim to have not taken the corner. I don't know to be honest. Its a complicated one.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#86
Yes, sorry
Didnt engage the brain. IDFK it is then, but they're not running in on goal with me there. Being pedantic, i'm also not awarding an IDFK every time a player rolls the ball around in the corner arc with the foot, prior to taking the corner. I'm wrong in Law on both, but spirit of the game is intended for these situations imo
It isnt. Spirit of the game is for situations the law does not make provisions for... not for existing laws to be ignored / bent
 

one

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#88
The Law makes very clear provision for this play.... It says 'Play on'!!!! There isn't any deception, its a completely legal play!! :) Next!!
The law says 'ball is in play' which is a difference to saying 'play on'.

And can you really hand on heart say there isn't any deception on these two clips you posted?

Quite clearly moved in this example...... Play on!!! ;)


Its wrong of any referee to disallow it!! :cool:
If you think these are not deception then your definition of deception is very very different to most people i know.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#89
One needs to drop this and stop digging! :cool: If something is specifically allowed in the LOTG and the player ensures that it 'clearly moves' (to the officials) then how is it possibly deception??? You or the attacking team have no formal duty whatsoever in telling the opposing team whats happening!! Stop being so precious and accept that its a 100% legal play! :)
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#90
@one
You're not cutting any ice with this deception talk and my reasoning based on spirit of game has run into a brick wall. We'll just have to start awarding IDFKs every time a player positions the ball with the foot in the corner arc or accept the mayhem when his pal runs the ball into the net. Interesting times ahead...
Same applies to all other FKs
Edit; not to be taken literally just illustrating game management implications
 
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Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#91
Why would any referee let any team take a quick FK if he was thinking in default 'Game Management' mode, they can cause mayhem in a game and yet they are completely legal if not encouraged!!!
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#92
Why would any referee let any team take a quick FK if he was thinking in default 'Game Management' mode, they can cause mayhem in a game and yet they are completely legal if not encouraged!!!
I'm just not an advocate of players taking advantage of weaknesses in Law to win games based on anything other than footballing ability
WRT quick FKs, I encourage them except for when 'football expects' a wall for kicks in and around the PA
 

Mintyref

RefChat Addict
#93
I'm just not an advocate of players taking advantage of weaknesses in Law to win games based on anything other than footballing ability
WRT quick FKs, I encourage them except for when 'football expects' a wall for kicks in and around the PA
When who expects? Certainly not this referee.......only when the attackers ask for ten yards and I have to get involved is it ever "on the whistle". All other times they're free to go.........
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#94
When who expects? Certainly not this referee.......only when the attackers ask for ten yards and I have to get involved is it ever "on the whistle". All other times they're free to go.........
I see ur point, but i cant recall the last televised quick FK on the edge of the box. Not a frequent spectacle
 

Mintyref

RefChat Addict
#95
I see ur point, but i cant recall the last televised quick FK on the edge of the box. Not a frequent spectacle
Yes because the referees are afraid they'll suffer a loss of match control....utter claptrap, they have a whistle and cards just like the rest of us
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#96
If it’s obvious to us, then we have to let it go, it’s not our job to help the defence, if they’re not paying attention then that’s their bad.

And I’m not sure about shouting out that the ball is now in play, it’s completely different to making everyone aware that a ball hasn’t gone out, and could be seen as favouring one team over another.

We don’t do it for quick free kicks
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#97
If it’s obvious to us, then we have to let it go, it’s not our job to help the defence, if they’re not paying attention then that’s their bad.

And I’m not sure about shouting out that the ball is now in play, it’s completely different to making everyone aware that a ball hasn’t gone out, and could be seen as favouring one team over another.

We don’t do it for quick free kicks
Spot on ZaZa
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#98
If it’s obvious to us, then we have to let it go, it’s not our job to help the defence, if they’re not paying attention then that’s their bad.

And I’m not sure about shouting out that the ball is now in play, it’s completely different to making everyone aware that a ball hasn’t gone out, and could be seen as favouring one team over another.

We don’t do it for quick free kicks
Yes we do, or at least I do.
 
#99
Hi
My experience of these is that some of these trick corner kick can be accompanied by "verbals" such " ill take it" or "leave it for Tom". In those situations the ball is kicked into play but there is distraction at play as well.
This is just plain wrong and it should not have been allowed
Here is another one
Was the ball in play? All it did was create bother for the game. Not sure why the AR did not flag immediately for a double touch?
 
Hi
My experience of these is that some of these trick corner kick can be accompanied by "verbals" such " ill take it" or "leave it for Tom". In those situations the ball is kicked into play but there is distraction at play as well.
This is just plain wrong and it should not have been allowed
Here is another one
Was the ball in play? All it did was create bother for the game. Not sure why the AR did not flag immediately for a double touch?
I'd like the law changed/clarified so the ball has to leave the arc. That way, if the defenders aren't watching and the ball has left the arc, it's fair game to say "you weren't watching, the ball left the arc". I'm fair game for most things but it's quite dodgy if the ball can remain in the arc and be in play as per the second video.
 
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