The Ref Stop

Cutting the Grass

Big Cat

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Game I was at recently
Step 5 v Step 3 (finished in a draw but the Step 3 team Kingstonian won the replay 5-1)
9:40 super header by Jets (Step 5)
13:10 PK awarded to home team - Interesting only because it was never a PK in a million years from the opposite angle (the home fans were all cackling and couldn't believe their luck). However, inconclusive on the footage and just shows what an impossible job we have when things look so different depending on angle

16:50 Main talking point... obvious PK turned down... but not to worry about that....
My question being... Especially with a reasonable audience (attendance), what's the best way of turning down a PK shout? This Ref goes for a huge pair of squatting scissors (which we all found a bit comical), but what are observers expecting for 5-to-4 Promotion Candidates and above?

 
The Ref Stop
I cut the grass (without squatting) whilst simultaneously shaking my head and shouting "NO, NO!".

It's about as unambiguous as it gets and works for me. :cool:

As an observer, it doesn't really matter so long as it's clear and (hopefully) isn't done at the same time your Neutral Assistant is flagging for a penalty!! :D
 
Kes said:
Surely you employ some method of communicating to the players that you've seen (whatever it is) and disagree with one team's appeals for a penalty?
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pk is just a fk that happens to be in the box

you cut the grass or shout nooooooooo at freekick claims?
 
Anubis said:
pk is just a fk that happens to be in the box

you cut the grass or shout nooooooooo at freekick claims?
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If there's a big shout for it then yeah, why not?

I'm not an invisible ghost floating through the match, I'm a person interacting with 22 other people. My job is to make decisions and communicate them - and "no foul" is as much of a decision as "foul", so in some circumstances it can be important to make that decision clear.
 
Kes said:
Did you used to be called Padfoot? :confused: :wtf: ;)
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TBF, I have seen quite a few people on the Forum poo poo the cutting grass idea, I think that's why I raised the topic again... cos I ain't sure about the best solution. I generally fall into the category of using voice only and/or 'fairly passive Queen Mother waving'. This doesn't work that well for me
 
Anubis said:
The lotg has drawings of signals for use .

is there one for non award of a foul?
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Surly you use body language for communication. For example open palms (@JamesL profile pic) to communicate stop or move back. Or touching your hand to indicate handball. Cutting grass is another one.

Signals in lotg must be used for their purpose. But it doesn't mean nothing else can be used for other purposes.

Having said that I don't use cutting grass to reject an appeal. Just a big loud no. What I do use cutting grass for is in an animated public warning of a player to say "no more".
 
There's no right or wrong answer here. It depends on the referee and their style.
If you want a laws of the game answer then @Anubis is right - there is no approved signal for "no foul".
That doesn't mean we can't communicate our no foul decisions, either verbally or non-verbally.
I know that it is encouraged, in England, for verbal communication from the referees to happen throughout play.
 
one said:
Surly you use body language for communication. For example open palms (@JamesL profile pic) to communicate stop or move back. Or touching your hand to indicate handball. Cutting grass is another one.

Signals in lotg must be used for their purpose. But it doesn't mean nothing else can be used for other purposes.

Having said that I don't use cutting grass to reject an appeal. Just a big loud no. What I do use cutting grass for is in an animated public warning of a player to say "no more".
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ok, nowhere did I say I dont use body language.

I asked where this cutting the grass or, no foul was, in the diagrams. Nothing more, nothing less.


Post is generic, not about me, If the original posts needs a definitive answer, the observer guidelines in this neck of the woods would be

" refrain from unauthorised signals" , if referee was to cut grass at a pk appeal

as with anything, different regional variations will apply
 
JamesL said:
There's no right or wrong answer here. It depends on the referee and their style.
If you want a laws of the game answer then @Anubis is right - there is no approved signal for "no foul".
That doesn't mean we can't communicate our no foul decisions, either verbally or non-verbally.
I know that it is encouraged, in England, for verbal communication from the referees to happen throughout play.
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This is the thing, technically, the referee ' could' utilise singing 2 Unlimiteds No Limits and go, no no, no no no no, no no theres no penalty.

Would the referee be in the wrong to do this?
as has correctly been pointed out, nowhere does it state this cant be done, granted it would be highly unusual and provoke ridicule.

simply going, no, with controlled shake of head might seem the preferred manner.
 
Anubis said:
" refrain from unauthorised signals"
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I would suggest to say this means no cutting grass is misinterpreting it. I would take it means if there is a signal in lotg for something that's the one you should use and nothing else.

Two other very common signals that are internationally accepted but are not in lotg are pointing to the penalty spot for a penalty kick and pointing to the centre spot for a goal.
 
Big Cat said:
TBF, I have seen quite a few people on the Forum poo poo the cutting grass idea, I think that's why I raised the topic again... cos I ain't sure about the best solution. I generally fall into the category of using voice only and/or 'fairly passive Queen Mother waving'. This doesn't work that well for me
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one said:
Surly you use body language for communication. For example open palms (@JamesL profile pic) to communicate stop or move back. Or touching your hand to indicate handball. Cutting grass is another one.

Signals in lotg must be used for their purpose. But it doesn't mean nothing else can be used for other purposes.

Having said that I don't use cutting grass to reject an appeal. Just a big loud no. What I do use cutting grass for is in an animated public warning of a player to say "no more".
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It's a very interesting debate. Absolutely, we do, and I think should, use all of the tools in our armoury.

But the LOTG are written using restrictive language with phrases like "approved signals" and "body language is not an explanation of a Decision."
one said:
Two other very common signals that are internationally accepted but are not in lotg are pointing to the penalty spot for a penalty kick
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Screenshot_20210917_140108_com.google.android.apps.docs.png

Where is this person pointing, otherwise?
 
Don't meant to hijack this thread but very much related. Thing of other commonly accepted non lotg signals. I have mentioned a few already.

Upside down wiper: offside
Rainbow back and forth: coming from offside position to get involved inside

With the whistle
Three long peeps: full time
Two long peeps: half time
Two or three short peeps: to attract attention usually ball not in play

Anything else?
 
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one said:
Don't meant to hijack this thread but very much related. Thing of other commonly accepted non lotg signals. I have mentioned a few already.

Upside down wiper: offside
Rainbow back and forth: coming from offside position to get involved inside

With the whistle
There long peeps: full time
Two long peeps: half time
Two or three short peeps: to attract attention usually ball not in play

Anything else?
Click to expand...


Not lotg but anyone I see at start game at coin toss and its change ends, putting finger up in air and spinning around, sorry, just go home.
 
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