A&H

Cup Game PKs Positioning

No way can you keep track on rolling subs in kids football not where i referee.
At a guess on Sunday in one game i would say one team alone made 20 different changes.


You have to find a way. Its your remit and duty to know not just at pens, but at all times, who is on your park
By not knowing who is on, you are high risk on the list for a pen to be taken by someone who should not be on the park
Scores winner, other team discover what has happened, the onus is on you, its you who will be asked why you were not able to accurately keep track of who should be taking a kick. You cant turn round to the committee and say "it was too hard to keep track, so, I never did"

I have been involved when such a thing happens, it's chaos and trust me, the bottom line fault and blame (and lets be brutal here, that is what it is) lies with the ref. So, find a way.

Too hard to keep track when you go to double figure yellows ? If you err here, its the refs fault
too hard to keep note of the subs....only one person will be carrying the can.....the ref.
if you cant comply with that particular leagues requirement to involve rolling subs because its too difficult, you need to find a league where you are able to keep an accurate record.
 
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Its simply not possible to manage 30 changes in a game on your own.

Plus a lot of the teams dont even have numbers on the kits, how do you manage that ?
 
Its simply not possible to manage 30 changes in a game on your own.

Plus a lot of the teams dont even have numbers on the kits, how do you manage that ?


So re the subs, whose is responsible for making sure only those who can take a kick, take a kick?

re the no numbers, first teams really should not be playing without some kind of number somewhere so that's a league admin issue in itself

on the park matters though, are, entrusted to the ref.
 
Its your remit and duty to know not just at pens, but at all times, who is on your park
This is not part of laws of the game or competition rules. It is your opinion and your method of 'operating'.

In fact most competition rules have a clause so you don't have to know at all times who is on the park. All substitutes must wear bibs at all times. This is so that substitutes are identified easily for events like melee, at the end of extra time or similar cases. Enforcing this rule (especially at the second half of extra time) is the easiest way to make sure things go smoothly at the end of extra time. Also position yourself closer to TAs before you blow full time to manage the on filed players. And as already pointed out, remind the managers a couple of times.

Also at the last stoppage before full time (you would kind of know when that is), its not a bad idea to shout towards the TAs, "last chance to sub".
 
So re the subs, whose is responsible for making sure only those who can take a kick, take a kick?

re the no numbers, first teams really should not be playing without some kind of number somewhere so that's a league admin issue in itself

on the park matters though, are, entrusted to the ref.


This is kids u13s football we are talking about, quite often not even matching kit never mind to all have numbers on.

You're just hoping the managers are honest and play by the rules when it comes to the players on the pitch taking KFTPM
 
Ok, how about this......I am actually scheduled to do a U13s cup tie on Sunday.....str8 to pens.....so..

without any suggestion am a better ref or a more clever person, if the game goes on (weather due to be bad over weekend), then, I will publish a pic of my match card with up to date who was on pitch at end etc.

if I can do it......
 
This is not part of laws of the game or competition rules. It is your opinion and your method of 'operating'.

In fact most competition rules have a clause so you don't have to know at all times who is on the park. All substitutes must wear bibs at all times. This is so that substitutes are identified easily for events like melee, at the end of extra time or similar cases. Enforcing this rule (especially at the second half of extra time) is the easiest way to make sure things go smoothly at the end of extra time. Also position yourself closer to TAs before you blow full time to manage the on filed players. And as already pointed out, remind the managers a couple of times.

Also at the last stoppage before full time (you would kind of know when that is), its not a bad idea to shout towards the TAs, "last chance to sub".



Whats undisputed is only those playing at the end of the game can take a pen. What you need to do, either mentally or physically to ensure this happens, can be down to the individual.
Am very much aware not every team has 11 strips, far less 16 numbered ones, far less a set of bibs!
There is no rule where I am about subs wearing bibs. Maybe there should be, but there is not. So where I am, there is no rule to enforce.
I will try it on Sunday and prove its possible on 1 match card.

I also have a clip somewhere of a semi pro game 3 year ago which I observed...2 mins to go there was a mass brawl, a total everybody in rammy, thing is, the subs (on one team) did have bibs, but in reality, this (from speaking to the match officials) made it harder to identify and mentally note who was getting what punishment..
pros and cons...
 
This is not part of laws of the game or competition rules. It is your opinion and your method of 'operating'.

****************************


Can i also point out, at risk of sounding like some American defence lawyer that the LOTG page 64, as am sure you know state.

"allows not unauthorised persons to enter the field of play"

now, for that part of the LOTG to be valid, it would kinda be beneficial to know who was on the park in the first place !!!]

****
 
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Not true - there has never been a time when it was required for the referee to be given the numbers or order of the kickers. For some reason it seemed to have become common practice at one time but it was never required by law.

Agree. It is simply one of those long standing pervasive myths (like can't say "mine") that just doesn't seem to go away.
 
Ok whilst am clearly mistaken re giving the numbers to the ref, what changed that we certainly used to, until, 5 years ago?
 
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