A&H

Couple of incidents

M

MarkB

New Member
Level 7 Referee
My 5th match refereeing as I've not long qualified. The other four were a breeze but had a couple of incidents in this one and it would be good to get some feedback on them.

First incident - U14's quarter final, yellow team winning 2-1 with 10 minutes remaining and blue player has went off to the side of the park after receiving treatment. As manager is yelling for player to be allowed back on the yellows take short corner so I wave player back on to field, the yellows cross it in and the ball is volleyed up to halfway line where the blue player who has just been waved on to field has made it a 2 v 1 in blues favour and they go on to score. Yellow defender and manager weren't too happy at the fact I'd waved him on at that point so should I have waited for a more suitable point?

Second incident - 2-2, five minutes left, yellow goalkeeper runs to edge of box, bends over to sort his glove (took him literally 2 seconds), puts knee on ball in between his leg to do this, picks ball up and kicks it out. Blue goalkeeper is furious and says he's not allowed to do this and keeps nipping away so gets a caution for dissent. Should this have been an IDFK for goalkeeper handling ball twice or would this still be classed as him in possession of the ball?

First post on the forum so go easy on me :)
 
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Welcome. Nothing to go easy for, don't worry!

First incident I'd say nothing you can do. Look at it another way - if you don't wave him on and he's ready (which he clearly was) and defending team concede a goal you'll get moaned at.

Everybody heard the shout, everybody saw you wave him on, everybody saw him come on. Not your problem.

Second could go either way, but sounds like you handled it well, including the caution for opposing go for dissent. Well done. Personally as you describe it I wouldn't have a problem. Not like he's taking the p¡ss.

Good refereeing.
 
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Mark, firstly welcome to the forum and good stuff for getting your first post out of the way.

I'll agree with RegalRef here, It sounds like you handled it well. As the gentleman rightly states, if they'd have conceded the goal, you'd be in the wrong in their eyes so it's just a case of the defending team should have defended better!

As for the ball beneath the knee, keeper is positive in possession and isn't using his hands. The knee isn't an extension of the arm either so you got that call correct too.

Good effort :)
 
The first incident is the football gods proving that whatever you do, someone's going to shout at you! I agree with the above posts, defenders should have been anticipating him coming back on and been prepared. You let him on when the ball is 50 odd yards away. Your actions are fine, defenders need to defend better.

Second incident sounds like good common sense. Pulling the keeper on that one and giving an idfk just creates bad feeling.
 
A goalkeeper is not permitted to touch the ball with his hand inside his own
penalty area in the following circumstances:
• if he handles the ball again after it has been released from his possession
and has not touched any other player:
– the goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball by touching
it with any part of his hands or arms except if the ball rebounds
accidentally from him, e.g. after he has made a save

So, the GK can't be considered to be "in control" of the ball as he is not touching it with any part of his hands or arms......

I would suggest that the correct decision as per the LOTG would have been an IDFK.....however I can understand why that wouldn't look good.
 
Why an idfk? You've just quoted the text from the Lotg which clearly states possession is by means of touch with an arm or hand...
"If he handles the ball again once it's been released from his possession", which means if he/she handles once and then handles a second time...
 
DB said:
Why an idfk? You've just quoted the text from the Lotg which clearly states possession is by means of touch with an arm or hand...
"If he handles the ball again once it's been released from his possession", which means if he/she handles once and then handles a second time...
Click to expand...

The way the OP has described the gk incident reads to me like the gk already has the ball in his hands, then places it on the floor to sort glove out, using his knee to retain control of the ball.

Apologies if I have misread that.....
 
I've read it as ball has come to him, he's put his knee on it and then picked it up. I could be wrong, if that is the case then you are correct.
 
I read it as had it in hand, put it between his legs, but off the ground (between knees) to sort out gloves, hands on he ball?
 
1) I really don't even understand the complaint here. Why wouldn't he be allowed to come on? I assume he didn't leave for treatment at that same stoppage?

2)If the keeper put his hand on it first, then again later it's an IFK. Stopping the ball between his knees? Well, not specifically illegal - but an opponent can also challenge it as it's not in his possession. Problem is, the opponent can't safely challenge for the ball while it's trapped between his legs, but the goalkeeper has created that situation. So if an opponent approaches, you're going to have to award an IFK against the keeper for PIADM before he gets there, otherwise keeper's probably going to get booted in the gut.
 
MarkB said:
Second incident - 2-2, five minutes left, yellow goalkeeper runs to edge of box, bends over to sort his glove (took him literally 2 seconds), puts knee on ball in between his leg to do this, picks ball up and kicks it out. Blue goalkeeper is furious and says he's not allowed to do this and keeps nipping away so gets a caution for dissent. Should this have been an IDFK for goalkeeper handling ball twice or would this still be classed as him in possession of the ball?

First post on the forum so go easy on me :)
Click to expand...

You need to be more specific if you want a clear and honest answer on here mate. ;)

Did the GK run to the edge of the box with the ball already in his hands? Did he dribble it with his feet? Did he even have it as he was "running to the edge of the box" or was it played through to him off an attcking opponent?

This reffing lark is far more complicated than that you know...... ;) :D
 
DB said:
I've read it as ball has come to him, he's put his knee on it and then picked it up. I could be wrong, if that is the case then you are correct.
Click to expand...

Padfoot is pretty much spot on with the incident, apologies for the confusion. The goalkeeper caught the ball, he then ran with the ball still in his hands to the edge of the penalty area, placed the ball on the ground in between his legs and placed his knee on it, quickly pulled on his glove, picked up the ball and kicked it out.

SM said:
I read it as had it in hand, put it between his legs, but off the ground (between knees) to sort out gloves, hands on he ball?
Click to expand...

Sorry, should have explained in more detail, he placed the ball on the ground and put his knee on the ball.

Kes said:
You need to be more specific if you want a clear and honest answer on here mate. ;)

Did the GK run to the edge of the box with the ball already in his hands? Did he dribble it with his feet? Did he even have it as he was "running to the edge of the box" or was it played through to him off an attcking opponent?

This reffing lark is far more complicated than that you know...... ;) :D
Click to expand...

Haha it isn't half!

After reading padfoots quote from the LOTG I think it probably should have been an IDFK. I just found it weird that he put his knee on the ball when no one was within 20 yards of him and it got me thinking that could maybe be classed as remaining in possession of the ball.
 
Yeah Mark, Padfoots interpretation was correct. The goalkeeper was in positive possession of the ball, let it go and then became in positive control again after sorting his gloves. I deem positive control as that he has it in his grasp, comfortably with two hands, where any attempt from an opposing player to dispossess the keeper would result in a breach of law.

IDFK all day long and a reminder of the rules as you pace the resulting wall out (if necessary). The keeper should know better and should have been wiser, all he had to do was kick the ball away
 
Having said all of that -- it does fall into that same kind of category as the GK having the ball in his hands, boot is untied and an opposing player ties it for him. Takes long than 6s.

Are you going to stop play and award an IFK for having the ball in hands too long, or are you going to thank the opposing player for his assistance and get on with things?

The big key here is a) communicating well with everyone, and b) not doing something that nobody expects (much like the Spanish Inquisition).
 
AlexF said:
Having said all of that -- it does fall into that same kind of category as the GK having the ball in his hands, boot is untied and an opposing player ties it for him. Takes long than 6s.

Are you going to stop play and award an IFK for having the ball in hands too long, or are you going to thank the opposing player for his assistance and get on with things?

The big key here is a) communicating well with everyone, and b) not doing something that nobody expects (much like the Spanish Inquisition).
Click to expand...

I would expect the GK to tie their own laces at a suitable break in play. Especially if open age!

I don't buy into this holding the game up for 'laces ref' past mini soccer. Especially as it more often than not just used as a delaying tactic.
 
Padfoot said:
I would expect the GK to tie their own laces at a suitable break in play. Especially if open age!

I don't buy into this holding the game up for 'laces ref' past mini soccer. Especially as it more often than not just used as a delaying tactic.
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How unsporting of you!!!

Some of us can't yet tie laces... I've been trying for so long :cry:
 
Padfoot said:
I don't buy into this holding the game up for 'laces ref' past mini soccer. Especially as it more often than not just used as a delaying tactic.
Click to expand...
Completely agree. Mini-soccer, OK. As soon as you get in to Youth no stopping for laces, despite the cries of "Ref, laces!" from a player on one knee pointing at his boot with both hands.
 
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