The Ref Stop

Correct Restart?

Matthew said:
Without going into semantics too much, we're talking a matter of a couple of seconds from getting in each others' faces to the pushing, so I can't be definitive on whether it started before or after I stopped the game.

What I don't think helps in this situation is a lack of guidance on what constitutes AA. I've always been of the understanding that the kind of scenario in my post is AA (that came from an assessor years ago), but I can certainly see why it could be "pushing and pulling an opponent" too. Ultimately I think the takeaway is that the sanction (i.e. C1 yellow for each) is correct, but that there's room for debate on which code applies.

I clearly got the restart wrong, but it was actually "right" from a match control perspective in that specific scenario. That's absolutely not to say that I'd go with that restart again because it obviously can't be supported in law.
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If you stopped play because of the unsporting behavior, it's when you decided to stop, not when you blow the whistle, so I think you can justify the IFK at the point as the proper call.

Note that AA doesn't exist in the LOTG. It is a descriptor of a type of event for the convenience of Rs in reporting incidents. The offense is USB. So it is when there is conduct that, ITOOTR, is unsporting behavior. (I'm not in the UK and don't use the codes, so my opinion matters little, but it seems depending on your view of why you cautioned, you could justify either reason--and either way it is USB.)
 
The Ref Stop
one said:
And if stop play because of USB what's the restart?
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If an offence involves contact, it is penalised by a direct free kick.

All verbal offences are penalised with an indirect free kick

If an offence occurs when the ball is not in play, this does not change how play is restarted.
 
one said:
I think you have also agreed with me 😁

And if stop play because of USB what's the restart?
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There are really three possibilities here:
  • If the USB was the pushing, then the restart is the DFK.
  • If the R decided to stop for the USB that occurred before the pushing began, then IFK.
  • If the R decided to stop play to de-escalate something that was not yet sanctionable against either player (which would be extremely unusual, and debatable as to propriety), the the restart would be a DB to the team who last touched the ball before the R decided to stop play (unless PA exception applies)
 
Kes said:
Not quite, it's the team who last touched the ball. ;) :)
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Enjoying learning from this thread. Are you suggesting it is the team who last touched the ball before play stopped, rather than whoever gets hold of the ball after the whistle?
 
MumRef said:
Enjoying learning from this thread. Are you suggesting it is the team who last touched the ball before play stopped, rather than whoever gets hold of the ball after the whistle?
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It's the former but I would love to see what happens if they change the law so it's the latter. It would be the same as the throw in going to the team who gets the ball first after it goes out of play.
 
JamesL said:
Without dissecting the OP too much, well actually I am, order of words, pushing and shoving started then play was stopped. That's probably quite important to my point.

Ball in play, two players want to aggressively start "pushing and shoving" each other then in my opinion they are acting without precaution, at minimum.

Of course not every push needs play to be stopped... But in this scenario presented in OP it was stopped because the players had engaged in "pushing and shoving" which by my opinion above is minimum careless.

And as I said in my previous post, the unsporting behaviour offence, in terms of English FA would be "SP", "pushing and pulling an opponent" and I would expect a referee to deem this kind of altercation as unsporting.
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Again, we're down in the weeds of the pointless concern about which FA caution code to use. But I've always considered C1 SP to relate to pushing and pulling that generates a caution for SPA (in the absence of an SPA caution code), wheras for the actions described in the OP, I would always put that through as AA.
 
Matthew said:
I think this is potentially one of the very few scenarios where the general ignorance of players to the LotG actually helps. Nobody questioned the restart, which certainly helped from a match control point of view.

I‘m sure this won’t be the last time, so it’s a good one to learn from for me.
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I doubt anyone would have questioned a free kick either - well apart form the team that it was awarded against - what I mean is, as you say, no one would know the nuances of law around which side should have the fk.
 
GraemeS said:
Again, we're down in the weeds of the pointless concern about which FA caution code to use. But I've always considered C1 SP to relate to pushing and pulling that generates a caution for SPA (in the absence of an SPA caution code), wheras for the actions described in the OP, I would always put that through as AA.
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Yep, it's of minimal concern in the grand scheme of things but for the FA's reporting.
Unsporting behaviour is unsporting behaviour in whatever guise it presents itself.
 
MumRef said:
Enjoying learning from this thread. Are you suggesting it is the team who last touched the ball before play stopped, rather than whoever gets hold of the ball after the whistle?
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Is the correct answer. :)

The only time you wouldn't is when either the ball or the last touch was in the penalty area when you stopped play - in which case it's a dropped ball to the defending team's GK.

Law 8, page 82 of the LoTG book. ;):cool:
 
one said:
It's the former but I would love to see what happens if they change the law so it's the latter. It would be the same as the throw in going to the team who gets the ball first after it goes out of play.
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Interestingly enough, that's exactly what the law was in the earliest years of the game.

Law 5, 1863 Laws of Association Football:

When the ball is in touch the first player who touches it shall throw it from the point on the boundary line where it left the ground, in a direction at right angles with the boundary line.
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That didn't change till 1873, when who gets the throw changed to the way it is now.

Law 5, 1873 (in part):

When the ball is in touch, a player of the opposite side to that which has kicked it out shall throw it from the point on the boundary line where it left the ground, in a direction at right angles with the boundary line ...
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Peter Grove said:
Interestingly enough, that's exactly what the law was in the earliest years of the game.

Law 5, 1863 Laws of Association Football:



That didn't change till 1873, when who gets the throw changed to the way it is now.

Law 5, 1873 (in part):
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I wonder why they changed it. Anyone here old enough to remember 🤣
 
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