A&H

Correct restart for a foul when the ball is out of play

zarathustra

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
A quick question for you fine people:

Something that happened in my last game, a yellow and an orange player are both going for a ball which is making its way to the touch like for a yellow throw.

It goes out, but just after it does the orange player runs into the yellow player, from where I was I decided it was careless and undeserving of a card so went with the throw.

However, if the ball had gone out for an orange throw, but the orange player had slid in and wiped the yellow player out (after the ball had crossed the touch line), after I caution the orange player for a reckless challenge, should orange still get the throw as it went out off a yellow player?

That sounds like the right answer as the ball was out of play when the offence occurred, but, am I wrong?
 
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A foul can only occur while the ball is in play. So a restart cannot be changed by something that occurs while the ball is out of play.

One always entertaining example is when a player is tripped, you blow the whistle, and he gets up and punches his opponent. He is sent off but his team still has the free kick.

So for your question, doesn't matter who did what - it's still the same throw in, but you can card players if needed.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
A foul can only occur while the ball is in play. So a restart cannot be changed by something that occurs while the ball is out of play.

One always entertaining example is when a player is tripped, you blow the whistle, and he gets up and punches his opponent. He is sent off but his team still has the free kick.

So for your question, doesn't matter who did what - it's still the same throw in, but you can card players if needed.
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Thanks, I thought that was the case, would be interesting try to sell that to some players.
 
If you haven't yet awarded the throw (as it sounds like may be the case in this case) blow and give the fk. The ball is in play until you award the throw.

Obviously if you have that's an entirely different matter as it must have been VERY late then.

Maintains the advantage for the team fouled and shows match control.

Award the throw and players will think you've missed it or deemed it not a foul, which could affect match control.
 
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Not so bad. Most people seem to get this. All you need to do is remind them that you can't award a free kick when the ball is out of play, but you've dealt with him by giving the card.

What's worst is when it's what would be the equivalent of a 'careless' foul. Say, a minor late tackle a moment after the ball went out of play. They're annoying because you have no clear way of addressing the tackle, and players tend to get narky over those ones.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
What's worst is when it's what would be the equivalent of a 'careless' foul. Say, a minor late tackle a moment after the ball went out of play. They're annoying because you have no clear way of addressing the tackle, and players tend to get narky over those ones.
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That was the problem I had in my last game.

The challenge was careless at best, and the throw was to the "fouled" team. The yellows were all shouting for "afters" but I had a good unobstructed view and didn't see anything untowards.

The orange player in question hadn't done anything else all game and as a one off I didn't feel it required a word with him.

Yellows weren't happy though.
 
If it's before you physically signal for the throw you could have awarded the free kick!
 
RegalRef said:
If it's before you physically signal for the throw you could have awarded the free kick!
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I'd already signalled for the throw.
But even if I hadn't , surely the ball is out of play regardless of whether I'd already signalled, it was obvious it had gone so not an occasion where I could have argued that the whole of the ball hadn't gone out.
 
The ball is out of play when you singal it IMHO.

Remember also what the LOTG says 'when two offences are committed at the same time, the more serious is punished'

Ok, calling a throw in an offence is a little harsh but you catch my drift.

In the situation you suggest I'm giving the FK all day long. For me if the ball has just gone over the line, is still moving, and a late challenge is committed, blow and award the foul.

If it's soon enough after the ball has gone out of play to be deemed careless you should have no problem or questions about awarding a freekick.

If it's too long to realistically sell a fm as the ball is so far away and out of play it surely has to be at least reckless, therefore throw but mandatory caution?
 
RegalRef said:
If you haven't yet awarded the throw (as it sounds like may be the case in this case) blow and give the fk. The ball is in play until you award the throw.

Obviously if you have that's an entirely different matter as it must have been VERY late then.

Maintains the advantage for the team fouled and shows match control.

Award the throw and players will think you've missed it or deemed it not a foul, which could affect match control.
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Regal have a read of law 9.
 
Ok, perhaps I didn't use the best phrase by referring to the ball.

But for me, if the ball is fractionally over the line I don't have an issue awarding the free kick.

More than a yard over when a challenge is made and its reckless for me.

As the OP states careless selling the fk should not be an issue.
 
The correct restart is certainly a throw in by why not speak to the player anyway which shows you havent missed it. Take him to one side and be honest, look fella i know there was nothing in that but i have to be seen to be doing my job and show everyone i have seen it so that's why i am having a word. Thanks
 
RegalRef said:
Ok, perhaps I didn't use the best phrase by referring to the ball.

But for me, if the ball is fractionally over the line I don't have an issue awarding the free kick.

More than a yard over when a challenge is made and its reckless for me.

As the OP states careless selling the fk should not be an issue.
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The difference between the ball being fractionally over the line and a yard over could be 2/100ths of a second!
Well, you'd be wrong giving the free-kick in both cases.
The ball is out of play when the whole of the ball crosses the whole of the line NOT when the referee signals!
 
Just flipping the scenario on its head slightly -

If the ball is in play but a foul is committed off the field of play, am I correct in thinking the restart is a drop ball?

If so, this seems harsh on the 'fouled' player. Especially if he was pulled back and would have gained possession of the ball and been away with it.
 
deusex said:
The difference between the ball being fractionally over the line and a yard over could be 2/100ths of a second!
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Precisely the point I was making. IE unless it's plainly obvious to everybody the ball is well out, selling a FK shouldn't be any issue whatsoever.

If it's that obvious it's so far over, then surely you're out of careless and into reckless or even excessive. The original post said that was no issue..

I'm not sure what your point is.
 
zarathustra said:
I'd already signalled for the throw.
But even if I hadn't , surely the ball is out of play regardless of whether I'd already signalled, it was obvious it had gone so not an occasion where I could have argued that the whole of the ball hadn't gone out.
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If the whole ball is out of play as you said, then you acted honestly, which is what we are all about, and correctly you awarded a throw in, what happened next was an incident that took place during a stoppage in play, which you dealt with accordingly.

DEVILS ADVOCATE:

Can you think of 2 occasions in Law that an ifk can be awarded with the ball already 'out of play'?
 
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