A&H

Champions League Final

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CapnBloodbeard said:
An attacker jumping in front of a keeper as he's kicking isn't challenging - what's the difference between doing that and sticking the foot out to block a roll?
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I’d accept that argument if he was next to him but 3 yards is giving the keeper ample time to plan his safe release.
 
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CapnBloodbeard said:
It's illegal because the laws prevent an opponent from blocking the release. He had to move and stretch to block the release - the ball wasn't thrown right at him.



The ball may have left his hand but the path of the ball was immediately blocked. That doesn't seem like a release, in the spirit of the law.
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So like I said the only way to prevent it is to bring in a distance from keeper rule.

Until then you’ll have this debate till the cows come home.

Nothing unsporting for me just pure stupidity and lack of concentration from the keeper.
 
one said:
Its all about which frame you use isn't it? Try this one
View attachment 1992

Here is why I think it shouldn't be a goal. The keeper is given 6 seconds of control of the ball. To balance this he can't be challenged and must be allowed to freely release the ball. The most important aspect of the laws of the game is that they must be fair. Allowing this sort of challenge/blocking the release is unfair, why? every time the keeper has the ball, get a few attackers to surround him and close off his options, you are not really challenging him but waiting for a release to block him the same way in this clip. Surly that mean the keeper either has to throw the ball away over the top or throw it at a blocking opponent. Anything else he will take more than 6 seconds.

For me, the intent of the law is simple, leave the keeper alone and in turn he has only has 6 seconds to get rid of the ball.
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What 6 second law is this?
 
Men in Black said:
So like I said the only way to prevent it is to bring in a distance from keeper rule.

Until then you’ll have this debate till the cows come home.

Nothing unsporting for me just pure stupidity and lack of concentration from the keeper.
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So you'd also allow an attacker to approach a keeper and jump up to block the kick?

I would argue it's not stupidity from the keeper when the LOTG (IMO) are in favour of the opponent not being able to intervene!
 
I'm really not sure how people are demonising Ramos over this. As said before, Salah gets up and it's not even a debate. He didn't even injure the arm Ramos was holding. Really weird, overreactioning like this
 
All VAR would have been able to do if it had been in operation was judge whether Karius had released the ball before Benzema moved to block it. To me it looked as though he had, therefore there can't be an argument that he has blocked the release as it was already released. I do accept it is very close though.
 
Jorik0907 said:
I'm really not sure how people are demonising Ramos over this. As said before, Salah gets up and it's not even a debate. He didn't even injure the arm Ramos was holding. Really weird, overreactioning like this
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I agree, and let's not forget that Salah had hold of Ramos initially.
 
RustyRef said:
All VAR would have been able to do if it had been in operation was judge whether Karius had released the ball before Benzema moved to block it. To me it looked as though he had, therefore there can't be an argument that he has blocked the release as it was already released. I do accept it is very close though.
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I slowed it right down - you can see him start to make his move as the keeper is starting to throw it. Having said that, while I'm 100% in favour of a foul, it's another difficult question as to whether the VAR should have overruled; it would perhaps have been a good candidate to get the ref to look at it again rather than overrule directly.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Can I add that, as much as the Liverpool gk wont be too popular round those parts for a while, if ever , had that been two huge referee errors and Real won by two goals, there would be match fixing allegations, bribe claims, Hillsborough Group would be demanding an inquest via an MP then a replay, bullets in post to referee, folk phoning the refs wife to say your husband has the heart of a toilet roll holder, and so on.....
Keeper makes mistake, few arms round shoulder and everything be ok
Ref makes mistake, hounded by pack of snarling wolves and fingers pointed in face, every swear word known to man and the biggest cheating barstewrd of all time.
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I tell you what though... look again at the dive Karius "attempts" for the second goal... it's so weird... it's like he pulls out half way through... certainly it means it doesn't look like the usual "for the cameras" goalkeeping we expect to see on TV... but I have to say my first thought was why didn't he keep his arms extended to try to get closer to the ball?
 
Good points on the Salah/Ramos incident and the GK release.

In law, AFAIK, it was a foul by Salah first so in a perfect VAR world, DFK to Ramos. Maybe YC to Ramos for recklessly holding on as they go down. But I totally understand why the ref would make a no call here as it is a "6 of one.." situation.

The lack of definition of "release" and lack of distance to keep away from the GK is definitely missing from the laws. In this case, even with a pic that shows Benzema 2 yards away he doesn't stop Karius releasing the ball. He intercepts the ball. You can try to interpret Benzema's action to fit that second clause "attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it". But I don't think he's attempting to kick the ball. He's putting himself in the path of the flight of the ball. Offence or not?

There is a little hole though here "the Mason hole" that could use updated wording!

Anyway, Liverpool fan, gutted. Thought we had them on the ropes for the first 25 mins. Thought Lovren, Virgil and Robertson looked world class all night. Strength in depth a big factor. No fit central midfielders to come on (Can/Lallana shadows of themselves), no threatening forwards to come on, and a prime Clyne could have also taken some of the pressure of TAA. The season was ace though. Keita to come. Obvs Klopp needs another big game forward, CM and er... maybe a GK... but I'll take this season. Oh yes.
 
RustyRef said:
All VAR would have been able to do if it had been in operation was judge whether Karius had released the ball before Benzema moved to block it. To me it looked as though he had, therefore there can't be an argument that he has blocked the release as it was already released. I do accept it is very close though.
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The image on post 55 suggests otherwise.
 
I think the obvious question here is what are the potential consequences of this being deemed legal in such a high-profile match? The assumption has always been that you can't go near the keeper while he's releasing - and based on last night's match that's obviously less strict that it's always been assumed to be.

So if I'm a manager, I'm starting next season with instruction to my front 3 to surround the keeper every time he's got the ball in hand. Not to challenge the keeper while in the act of kicking or throwing, but make him feel uncomfortable, and to get a block in the split-second it leaves his hand or foot. Because when it's as effective as that and apparently legal, why wouldn't you?
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
So you'd also allow an attacker to approach a keeper and jump up to block the kick?

I would argue it's not stupidity from the keeper when the LOTG (IMO) are in favour of the opponent not being able to intervene!
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Who said anything about jumping up to block a keeper?

What’s that gotta do with the price of eggs.
 
Seen a lot of kidology and gamesmanship with this play in lots of games. Strikers bend their walks back to just let the keeper know they’re there! The hands are up fhen pleading innocence. I’m sure it’s coached to put off the keeper just enough to not get pulled for it and look all holier than thou and the keepers fault!
 
Men in Black said:
Who said anything about jumping up to block a keeper?

What’s that gotta do with the price of eggs.
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So ref. My post #57 - smalling, not jumping, but sticking a leg out to block the keepers kick, is legal and was wrongly peanalised?

Seems bizarre to me if that’s the case, and if not, then I don’t understand the difference between that and Benzema last night
 
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