The Ref Stop

Catch 22 97th minute

I'm with HRW - CARS only "help me out" with in/out of play - I always phrase it that way and point out I might (hopefully very rarely) overrule them - & with offsides - again I emphasise I will still decide if offside or not - albeit that usually I will go with them.

I say leave everything else to me inc "foul throws"

That line of instructions avoids the OP scenario.
 
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The Ref Stop
If I'm the bloke in the middle my pre match is as follows ball in and out of play in line with back 4 and offsides and that's all
 
I know that its different all over the country but round our way the pre-match brief consists of "here is a flag, cheers"
 
PinnerPaul said:
Surely then you are opening yourself up to scenarios like the o.p that way?
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You are quite right but CAR's in this part of the world do a tiny bit more than nothing. They generally stand there, sometimes looking at the pitch and very occasionally remembering that they have the flag in their hand. Would certainly never ask one to do offside or anything to do with LOTG.

Have had this discussion many times on here but that's just the way it is, always has been, even when i played.
 
Although it's an unfortunate situation, I think you have done the right thing in terms of procedure. If we don't treat CARs as assistants even for the extent of the role they are supposed to have, it leads to inconsistencies and ill-feeling. However, from recent experience, I have noted that some CARs are slightly officious with foul throws. Some are suspicious of any short-distance throw (see 'release from behind the head' discussion from several months ago) and one on Saturday accused me of letting them go altogether.
My caveat would be that if you have seen the throw and identified no problem at the time, overruling is expected. If the CAR is certain and you are not sure, I see no issue with deferring to him or her. I have done so with offsides before and will probably do so again. You also get an impression of whether a CAR is less or more competent during a game and then judge accordingly. If he/she is straying into rank bias, you can replace him/her.
 
boblardo said:
Ive had one of these Catch 22 situations before. Red team striker runs towards goal with the ball and is in/on the edge of the area, white team defender tackles from behind and misses the ball, 100% banker of a foul so i immediately signal for a penalty. CAR flag up so i walk over and ask "are you signalling for an offside?", CAR replies "no, it was outside the box". "Thank you Mr CAR, if you are not flagging for offside its a penalty."

Queue protests from CAR stating "its outside the box, i am trying to help you" and other white team players telling me that "i am allowed to change my mind etc"

I remain firm and we continue from the penalty mark and the keeper makes a great save

Had i changed my mind red team would have been the ones protesting.!!!!
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I had an almost identical scenario a few years ago. I think it was before I included specific instructions in my brief, and that (though you will always get difficult people from time to time) seems to have done the trick.
 
There is no way whatsoever that you should be giving CARs foul throws. Do you really think that, given he will be watching the game and possibly the offside line, he will be looking down at the throw-in taker's feet? Not a chance.
 
I specifically tell CARs not to do foul throws. We all know how often you get the call "foul throw ref" when it is a bit ugly but OK in law; if you let CARs judge this then you are just setting yourself up for either constantly over-ruling your CAR or penalising things that shouldn't be penalised.

I would suggest that if the OP couldn't see the offence from wherever he was on the pitch then it was not that important. Player throws the ball 40 yards or player throws the ball 40 yards plus 6 inches - who cares?
 
RustyRef said:
There is no way whatsoever that you should be giving CARs foul throws. Do you really think that, given he will be watching the game and possibly the offside line, he will be looking down at the throw-in taker's feet? Not a chance.
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Let me be clear I never gave him foul throws. And would never accept a CAR to give a foul throw for arms, the mistake I made was I also never told him I didn't want foul throws!
 
Ryan Woods said:
Let me be clear I never gave him foul throws. And would never accept a CAR to give a foul throw for arms, the mistake I made was I also never told him I didn't want foul throws!
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Hence the "leave everything else to me" in my CAR pre match. We all live & learn.

To be fair, some CARs ignore pre match and still stick up flag at an awkward moment - yours may well have done whatever your pre match said.

As you said in the op, it WAS a catch 22 - "goal" and CAR sticks up flag - you know that 11 are going to be unhappy whatever follows!
 
boblardo said:
Ive had one of these Catch 22 situations before. Red team striker runs towards goal with the ball and is in/on the edge of the area, white team defender tackles from behind and misses the ball, 100% banker of a foul so i immediately signal for a penalty. CAR flag up so i walk over and ask "are you signalling for an offside?", CAR replies "no, it was outside the box". "Thank you Mr CAR, if you are not flagging for offside its a penalty."

Queue protests from CAR stating "its outside the box, i am trying to help you" and other white team players telling me that "i am allowed to change my mind etc"
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I had this a couple of years ago, with the same result (and the same protests) ending with the CAR throwing the flag to the floor and walking off! Very tough to handle, but you're absolutely right of course.
 
So Saturdays game I had the same away team who's club assistant caused the controversy, needless to say my pre-match brief to club assistants and captains contained the words "at no point do I wish you to indicate for fouls and foul throws" no issues!
 
Ryan Woods said:
So Saturdays game I had the same away team who's club assistant caused the controversy, needless to say my pre-match brief to club assistants and captains contained the words "at no point do I wish you to indicate for fouls and foul throws" no issues!
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'

threw something similar in before my game yesterday, no issues... but didnt stop the appeals for them though!
 
Assistant referees are there to assist you. Part of my decision would be how confident was I that the CAR had had a good game and got the vast majority of the decisions correct. Also I would be considering what club he was from. If still not sure, go with instinct. Depending on where your position was at the time of the throw depends on where you would be - does your position help? I always glance at the player and the AR as the player throws the ball to make sure I see the throw and AR and can blow straight away. If he flagged before the throw was taken then I would go with it. They should know that you can't be offside from a throw, players always shout it! If he did say that it was offside then that is something else you have to deal with but that is another conversation for another time!
 
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