The Ref Stop

Can C3 be used for "dissent with aggressive intent"?

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pompeydunc

New Member
I was at a Step 7 game yesterday when the away team went 2-0 down. The visiting goalkeeper (incorrectly) believed the goal to be offside. He protested to the linesman and went to about 3 feet from his face, he continued protesting to the referee more than once, and finally was shown the yellow card for what was surely dissent. I was shocked to then see that he remained on the pitch, rather than needing to serve 10 minutes in the sin bin. Given that the away team quickly then pulled the match back to 2-1, this could have had a major sway on the result.

I spoke to the senior and vastly more assistant referee after the match (he has run the line at Step 1 and in the middle at Step 3). He claimed that referees have started to use their discretion in these situations and put this down as a C3 offence as "dissent with aggressive intent", rather than just C2 "dissent". I find this incredible, as clearly for the opposing team then a player being off for ten minutes, particularly the goalkeeper, is of a greater punishment that just a caution. Notwithstanding a second caution could lead to a red.

I would be interested to hear your observations on this, as to whether this is a widely used route to avoid a caution for dissent?
 
The Ref Stop
What a cop out.

I’m lost for anything more constructive to say here other than the goalkeeper has been allowed to get away with it.
 
As I thought. Still not as bad as a match last month when the away team had 12 players on the pitch for about five minutes until one of our subs pointed it out! A review of video footage showed an injured player being treated off the pitch on far side being replaced on the near side (where management/subs are). The referee forgetting this, and then calling the injured player back onto the pitch, who presumably was not aware that he had been replaced. How the visiting side and players did not notice either (or perhaps they were aware?!) is also baffling. You could imagine this happening in youth football, but not in a Step 7 county premier division!
 
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Certainly shouldn't be used to avoid a dissent sin bin, and could potentially land the referee in hot water if it gets reported.
 
JamesL said:
C3? Persistent offending??
What the hell is dissent with aggressive intent... Does not sound like the words of a level 3/step 1 AR, current or former 🤔
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Agreed.

Sounds more like some Walt talking absolute bowlicks to me ... ;)
 
Kes said:
Agreed.

Sounds more like some Walt talking absolute bowlicks to me ... ;)
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In fairness, if I was on the line where I'd just seen the referee be completely incorrect in law I would be very careful what I said to a spectator. Probably just ignore him, but if I did say anything it would have a strong element of spin to try and water down the mistake. If the referee was reported and charged the two assistants would be in hot water as well, so I certainly wouldn't be saying "yes, he should have gone in the sin bin" 😂
 
RustyRef said:
In fairness, if I was on the line where I'd just seen the referee be completely incorrect in law I would be very careful what I said to a spectator. Probably just ignore him, but if I did say anything it would have a strong element of spin to try and water down the mistake. If the referee was reported and charged the two assistants would be in hot water as well, so I certainly wouldn't be saying "yes, he should have gone in the sin bin" 😂
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That's a fair point I suppose. ;) :D

My stance on it would have been to keep shtum and discuss it with the ref in question afterwards ...
 
Is it just me that finds presumably a very experienced L5 on the line at Step 7 a bit weird?

Or maybe it's common I don't know?
 
Josh the referee said:
Is it just me that finds presumably a very experienced L5 on the line at Step 7 a bit weird?

Or maybe it's common I don't know?
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Some Supply Leagues have a Step 7 division. Spartan South Midlands is one example, Anglo Combination used to be another - and by some quirk of historical precedent had level 4s as referees
 
Josh the referee said:
Is it just me that finds presumably a very experienced L5 on the line at Step 7 a bit weird?

Or maybe it's common I don't know?
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Post covid it's extremely odd considering how short of ARs the leagues are at step 5/6 and middles at step 7. In my area there's emails coming out every other week looking for refs for step 7 middles
 
If it’s the league I think then referees do both lines and middles. Obviously on days when there are fewer officials to cover all the games then the ones on the lines can come off to do middles as necessary but otherwise it’s not unusual for more senior refs to do lines, especially with the top teams.

The league had supply status in the past, and a lot of the ex level 4 refs who got promoted came back on the league once they left the system, after it lost this status. It helps less experienced officials develop to work with senior referees on the line, and the league’s always shared middles among all the refs on the list. Obviously only level 5 do middles on the premier division (step 7) and the other divisions don’t usually have ARs

Since Covid the league has had fewer of the really experienced guys, but it’s still not uncommon to have an ex l3 on the line
 
Many referees are now using C1-AA and C4 and even boast that they don't need sin bins due to their man management akills.
Would be interesting to see the stats on the increase in c1-AA and C4 since sin bins came in.
Putting it C3 is a new one on me.
 
Unfortunately I know many referees who give a C1-AA instead of dissent sin bins. I think it is a cop out and incorrect in law.

Inconsistencies make our roles on the pitch more difficult when we have to give dissent cautions.

Rant over. Time to go and watch some non-league football and eat unhealthy food.
 
Wolf_Ref said:
Unfortunately I know many referees who give a C1-AA instead of dissent sin bins. I think it is a cop out and incorrect in law.
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I’ve never done this, but I really wish SinBins acted as normal cautions, and picking 2 up leaves your team down to 10 men, and a red card for S7.

I find the way SinBins are in play at the moment genuinely infuriating. They do work, the first SinBin is often enough to cool down most people and take the dissent out the game.

But I had to caution a player for C4, then he gave me dissent, so I had to SinBin him for C2. Imagine trying to explain showing 2 yellow cards; but no red at Sunday League.

The way I see it, he’s commited 2 cautionable offences, but stayed on the pitch for the whole of the second half, that’s a cop out it anything.

Feel free to disagree, but I really wish they’d act like normal cautions in terms of picking up 2 per game.
 
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