Brazil v Ecuador
- Thread starter Anubis
- Start date
i've only seen brief snippets but from what i have seen, the ref has made some big calls and got almost all of them wrong, not helped by a typically south american attitude towards dissent which wasnt dealt with
the first red to the ecuador keeper is correct but unsure if it was given via VAR on live, if it was live it took him an age to give it - definitely given by VAR
2nd red (double yellow for the brazil rb) seemed a touch harsh and, potentially, a reaction following quite quickly after the ecuador red and dissent from their players - changed my mind, easy yellow
first overturned alisson red - i dont think this is a clear and obvious error, you could argue for anything here but once it's given i think it has to stay - changed my mind, foot might be high but no offence for me
not seen the overturned pen - seems like this is a dive, but video isnt that clear
2nd alisson red is a poor decision, also took him an age to produce the 2nd yellow / red as well
see if i can dig out some highlights
the first red to the ecuador keeper is correct but unsure if it was given via VAR on live, if it was live it took him an age to give it - definitely given by VAR
2nd red (double yellow for the brazil rb) seemed a touch harsh and, potentially, a reaction following quite quickly after the ecuador red and dissent from their players - changed my mind, easy yellow
first overturned alisson red - i dont think this is a clear and obvious error, you could argue for anything here but once it's given i think it has to stay - changed my mind, foot might be high but no offence for me
not seen the overturned pen - seems like this is a dive, but video isnt that clear
2nd alisson red is a poor decision, also took him an age to produce the 2nd yellow / red as well
see if i can dig out some highlights
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Anubis
RefChat Addict
First Ecuador red is a shambles, its a red real time and there is nothing to go to screen for, var should be saying red, end of.
On first view second yellow for Brazil looks harsh, but, ok I will buy it, esp under pressure having sent off the Ecuador gk
Brazil gk is a red for me, not intentional, however, he on the way down, has booted the attacker in the shoulder. Can understand the yellow but any of us tomorrow without replay are going red
Ecuador pk is simulation, anticipated contact, correctly overturned but no yellow, leading me to think its been simply given for a foul by him
Cant see Brazil gk second red, seems strange something that was originally a straight red tho becomes a nothing, ( or did it?) again, not seen it
ref looked lost, did not want to be out there, constant mobbing, too much dialogue, never seemed in control despite his pretend authoritive signals
In his defence, it looked like a horrible task
On first view second yellow for Brazil looks harsh, but, ok I will buy it, esp under pressure having sent off the Ecuador gk
Brazil gk is a red for me, not intentional, however, he on the way down, has booted the attacker in the shoulder. Can understand the yellow but any of us tomorrow without replay are going red
Ecuador pk is simulation, anticipated contact, correctly overturned but no yellow, leading me to think its been simply given for a foul by him
Cant see Brazil gk second red, seems strange something that was originally a straight red tho becomes a nothing, ( or did it?) again, not seen it
ref looked lost, did not want to be out there, constant mobbing, too much dialogue, never seemed in control despite his pretend authoritive signals
In his defence, it looked like a horrible task
Does have second YV for Alison
Ecuador sending off 2.30
Brazil sending off 3.00
Alison 1RC 3.45
with the level of deceit / cheating / gamesmanship etc on display i'd say it's almost impossible / incredibly hard to ref and you're always going to make mistakes
Anubis
RefChat Addict
thats a given. But missing a red, awarding a red then changing it to yellow, wrongly awarding a pk then rescinding another red is not a great nights work
in the clips, he ( understandably) looks like a rabbit in headlights, pointing strong arm signals but obvious to all he did not mean them, prolonged dialogue, the game went 20 mins over the 90 due to indecision,
with no var that absolutely horrible first gk red is missed
a pk is given wrongly
and the other gk is sent off in the last min when the reality is no card
The ref must be prepared, I wont buy for one second he went into that game not aware of skullduggery.
The first red I thought was a bad miss, tough for the A/R to get involved in that as the defender blocks the view yeah? The ref seems too central to see that incident I guess, so it's a bad miss.
Allison red, I think in the heat of the moment of the match, I would have probably done the same thing, and maybe not considered that he had cleared the ball, the defender has charged in etc. I guess really, he should have tried to head it away himself? (Or, I should probably consider the passage of play before jumping to the red card, whichever.)
Penalty call, I hate criticising them because he only really gets one look. I didn't really think it looked like a penalty, but then I got twenty replays so...
Last red card, was well 'sold' by the defender, is it the A/R saying it's a foul? Cos the referee doesn't look interested in the video?
If there's anything I can learn from those incidents, particularly the two keeper ones, is it's fine margins between getting it right or wrong without the benefit of VAR - I think on first viewing I'd have gone red on the first incident, and if my A/R says it's a foul for the second, well I'm not going to overrule him when he has a good view of it (I should hope).
Allison red, I think in the heat of the moment of the match, I would have probably done the same thing, and maybe not considered that he had cleared the ball, the defender has charged in etc. I guess really, he should have tried to head it away himself? (Or, I should probably consider the passage of play before jumping to the red card, whichever.)
Penalty call, I hate criticising them because he only really gets one look. I didn't really think it looked like a penalty, but then I got twenty replays so...
Last red card, was well 'sold' by the defender, is it the A/R saying it's a foul? Cos the referee doesn't look interested in the video?
If there's anything I can learn from those incidents, particularly the two keeper ones, is it's fine margins between getting it right or wrong without the benefit of VAR - I think on first viewing I'd have gone red on the first incident, and if my A/R says it's a foul for the second, well I'm not going to overrule him when he has a good view of it (I should hope).
I was quite happy with the penalty for the punch. Even if you says it's not reckless because the contact was glancing (I'm not convinced) the ball was still available to be contested by the attacker and Allisson has cleaned him out!
It's not like the punch put the ball into orbit and killed off the attack - he fluffed it and smashed the attacker in the process.
It's not like the punch put the ball into orbit and killed off the attack - he fluffed it and smashed the attacker in the process.
CONMEBOL releases the video with the communication from all of the incidents. The subtitles and audio are in Spanish (or Portuguese for a Brazilian crew), but you can turn on the auto generated English translation which at least lets you pick out the key points. To do this, click the CC button, go to settings, close captioning, and then auto translate.
10' Red -
25' Overturned red -
93' Overturned PK/2YC -
10' Red -
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Charge your phone!
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Great to see three videos.
#1 Ecuador red - this is such an easy red card, astounded it was not seen by at least the AR. VAR makes a dogs dinner - far too much chat, far too many clips. VAR should just be saying clearly. It is red, come to the monitor quickly for presentation purposes. Laughable faffing. I am more interested in how much contact was on the line and if there is a case for a penalty.
#2 Alisson high foot - I think this is an easy red. VAR is commentating "it's part of play" but Alisson's foot is 9 feet in the air and chopping down like a cage fighter. He should be heading that. It's easy endangering the safety for me. Certainly not C&O error. Alisson knows exactly what he is doing, easy red.
#3 Alisson punch - play on. Again, this seems so easy. VAR's millions of clips and angles are just confusing. Different angles seem to show different players contacting the ball first. I don't think it matters. Alisson gets good contact on the ball. It's expected, proportionate. The attacker if anything is acting recklessly, as he is not going to win anything there and he is chancing it.
In all three cases VAR is confusing, far too much babble, horrible for the referee. Far too much interference. Minimum benefit. Oh my gawd.
#1 Ecuador red - this is such an easy red card, astounded it was not seen by at least the AR. VAR makes a dogs dinner - far too much chat, far too many clips. VAR should just be saying clearly. It is red, come to the monitor quickly for presentation purposes. Laughable faffing. I am more interested in how much contact was on the line and if there is a case for a penalty.
#2 Alisson high foot - I think this is an easy red. VAR is commentating "it's part of play" but Alisson's foot is 9 feet in the air and chopping down like a cage fighter. He should be heading that. It's easy endangering the safety for me. Certainly not C&O error. Alisson knows exactly what he is doing, easy red.
#3 Alisson punch - play on. Again, this seems so easy. VAR's millions of clips and angles are just confusing. Different angles seem to show different players contacting the ball first. I don't think it matters. Alisson gets good contact on the ball. It's expected, proportionate. The attacker if anything is acting recklessly, as he is not going to win anything there and he is chancing it.
In all three cases VAR is confusing, far too much babble, horrible for the referee. Far too much interference. Minimum benefit. Oh my gawd.