Bournemouth and Goal Line Technology

[Justylove]

According to the BBC Bournemouth are considering legal action around the non allowed Goal in the Sheffield United v Aston Villa game. Had the goal been given, it would have meant that Villa got relegated not Bournemouth.

IFAB laws are clear, but it could get messy, especially with the amounts of money involved...

 

[socal lurker]

I believe the phrase that most clearly describes this kind of lawsuit is "publicity stunt."

 

[zarathustra]

It will be interesting to see whether they go through with it, and if they do how it pans out.

I I wonder who they would sue, Hawkeye for the technological failure, or PGMOL for not using VAR to double check the goal, if that isn't a clear an obvious error then I don't know what is.

 

[OIREF!]

Don't know how far Bournemouth will push this but I believe it's just a matter of time until some club makes a legal challenge to a refereeing or technology decision.

 

[zarathustra]

Don't know how far Bournemouth will push this but I believe it's just a matter of time until some club makes a legal challenge to a refereeing or technology decision.

I don't think they'd get very far challenging a refereeing decision unless they could prove it was intentional i.e. some form of match fixing.

But GLT failing like that has cost them a lot of money, and it is only compounded by the fact that it wasn't picked up by VAR etc. That is a serious failure as it was an obvious error and they just sat there and did nothing.

 

[one]

The question is, had there been no GLT would the referee have given a goal? If the answer is no (the likely answer) then GLT fail did not cost them anything.

 

[Justylove]

The question is, had there been no GLT would the referee have given a goal? If the answer is no (the likely answer) then GLT fail did not cost them anything.

That’s not entirely true. Since GLT alerts the match officials to the ball crossing the line, in effect it takes the Goal/No Goal decision away from them entirely.

If there was no GLT then the match officials would have had to make a decision based upon what they saw as opposed to relying on the technology to tell them.

If they do launch a legal challenge that will mean that we’ve got potential relegation outcomes in 3 of the 4 pro leagues in England being decided based on legal challenges this season, with only League 1 not being involved.

 

[zarathustra]

That’s not entirely true. Since GLT alerts the match officials to the ball crossing the line, in effect it takes the Goal/No Goal decision away from them entirely.

If there was no GLT then the match officials would have had to make a decision based upon what they saw as opposed to relying on the technology to tell them.

If they do launch a legal challenge that will mean that we’ve got potential relegation outcomes in 3 of the 4 pro leagues in England being decided based on legal challenges this season, with only League 1 not being involved.

Who are the other challenges by?

I know Tranmere were talking about legal action after the got relegated based on points per game

 

[Justylove]

Who are the other challenges by?

I know Tranmere were talking about legal action after the got relegated based on points per game

Championship there are a number of things going on related to FFP irregularities, specifically around how stadium assets were accounted for. There are a number of clubs that could get dragged down into the relegation zone depending on the outcome and how severe any penalties imposed might be.

L2 there is a challenge around the Stevenage/Macclesfield points deduction situation.

 

[one]

That’s not entirely true. Since GLT alerts the match officials to the ball crossing the line, in effect it takes the Goal/No Goal decision away from them entirely.

If there was no GLT then the match officials would have had to make a decision based upon what they saw as opposed to relying on the technology to tell them.

If they do launch a legal challenge that will mean that we’ve got potential relegation outcomes in 3 of the 4 pro leagues in England being decided based on legal challenges this season, with only League 1 not being involved.

I don't think you entity understood my post. Which part is not true? My post is based on a decision when there is no GLT and the referee knows there is no GLT. And they have to make a decision based on what they see. Which is pretty much what you said.

So since you responded to my decision I ask you this question. If there was no GLT in that game and the referees knew it and had to make a decision based on what they saw what do you think their decision would have been?

I know you'd only be guessing but nonetheless good to know what you think.

 

[JamesL]

The question is, had there been no GLT would the referee have given a goal? If the answer is no (the likely answer) then GLT fail did not cost them anything.

You couldn't prove that either way.

 

[JamesL]

There is no case in my, very limited knowledge based, opinion.
If the product was sold as infallible, then yes, but it isn't. It has a known margin of error and I bet you there is a clause in any contract of sale or service operating manual protecting against technical malfunction.
How many goals were they awarded through the season, or goals not given against whne the tech worked.
Yes its an absolute clanger and has had a serious affect on the outcome... But here is the clincher... Nobody knows what might have happened if that goal was scored. They could have gone on to lose that game, or win or lose All of the other games after that game. You cannot directly attribute that mistake to their relegation on that basis, surely.

 

[one]

You couldn't prove that either way.

Exactly. And that is what makes the law suit fail. It has to be based on proof that without GLT the refs would have given a goal with reasonable certainty. Commons sense for me.

 

[Justylove]

I don't think you entity understood my post. Which part is not true? My post is based on a decision when there is no GLT and the referee knows there is no GLT. And they have to make a decision based on what they see. Which is pretty much what you said.

So since you responded to my decision I ask you this question. If there was no GLT in that game and the referees knew it and had to make a decision based on what they saw what do you think their decision would have been?

I know you'd only be guessing but nonetheless good to know what you think.

If there was no GLT in the game, match officials would likely be taking different positions on the FOP to get a different angle of ball over the line or not. Trying to compare a situation where we have the technology versus a hypothetical situation where it doesn’t exist is nonsense.

However I do agree that if they do launch a case, it will be very difficult to prove and get overturned and would also set a very dangerous precedent for the game as a whole.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Like @socal lurker I believe this is a publicity stunt. If we look at this as a single incident then there is an error, a single error, that cannot be denied. It must however be considered on this basis

1. if the goal had been given, it would have immediately and irrevocably changed the dynamics of that game. It would have impacted on each and every subsequent moment and action that occurred in that game, possibly resulting in a different result or the same result.
2. if the result had changed, that would have changed the dynamic of each and every subsequent game played in that competition.
3. if the result had remained the same, it is possible that some other fact may have changed, for example a sanction or injury being incurred by a player. The result of this may have changed the the dynamic of each and every subsequent game played in that competition by that player
4. prior to the commencement of any season, the rules governing the basis on which the competition will operate are voted on and agreed by the AGM of the competition, which is made up of representatives of all the member clubs
5. these rules are likely to refer to the protocol which will apply in the case of a malfunction or failure of any technology intended to support or supplement the decision making process adopted by the match officials
6. within the rules agreed, there is a commitment by each and every participant to adhere to and accept the competition rules
7. within the laws of football, there is a stipulation that the decisions of the referee... are final

For Bournemouth to have any chance of success, they would have to demonstrate that everything which followed after that decision remained the same, i.e. every tackle, sanction, injury, substitution, official decision and result would have to have been unchanged. They would also have to demonstrate that they did not accept the adoption of the competition rules nor did they accept the authority of the match official in this or any other game.

Point 4 applies to Tranmere as they will have been party to the meeting which agreed PPG and also have given their agreement to accept the outcome of said meeting as binding. And they used to laugh at me for my insistence that match officials had a copy of the competition rules for every competition in which they took part. It seems some clubs need to read the small print as well.

 

[arbitre]

Maybe the fact that Hawkeye themselves apologised for the error may have some form of bearing on any legal challenge. Their apology indicated that a goal had been scored!

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Maybe the fact that Hawkeye themselves apologised for the error may have some form of bearing on any legal challenge. Their apology indicated that a goal had been scored!

See points 1, 2 and 3 of my previous post. The only thing that is constant is change.

 

[Big Cat]

Just lawyers making waves; none of whom would work on a 'no win, no fee basis', for good reason

 

[JamesL]

Like @socal lurker I believe this is a publicity stunt. If we look at this as a single incident then there is an error, a single error, that cannot be denied. It must however be considered on this basis

1. if the goal had been given, it would have immediately and irrevocably changed the dynamics of that game. It would have impacted on each and every subsequent moment and action that occurred in that game, possibly resulting in a different result or the same result.
2. if the result had changed, that would have changed the dynamic of each and every subsequent game played in that competition.
3. if the result had remained the same, it is possible that some other fact may have changed, for example a sanction or injury being incurred by a player. The result of this may have changed the the dynamic of each and every subsequent game played in that competition by that player
4. prior to the commencement of any season, the rules governing the basis on which the competition will operate are voted on and agreed by the AGM of the competition, which is made up of representatives of all the member clubs
5. these rules are likely to refer to the protocol which will apply in the case of a malfunction or failure of any technology intended to support or supplement the decision making process adopted by the match officials
6. within the rules agreed, there is a commitment by each and every participant to adhere to and accept the competition rules
7. within the laws of football, there is a stipulation that the decisions of the referee... are final

For Bournemouth to have any chance of success, they would have to demonstrate that everything which followed after that decision remained the same, i.e. every tackle, sanction, injury, substitution, official decision and result would have to have been unchanged. They would also have to demonstrate that they did not accept the adoption of the competition rules nor did they accept the authority of the match official in this or any other game.

Point 4 applies to Tranmere as they will have been party to the meeting which agreed PPG and also have given their agreement to accept the outcome of said meeting as binding. And they used to laugh at me for my insistence that match officials had a copy of the competition rules for every competition in which they took part. It seems some clubs need to read the small print as well.

It's the butterfly effect. Had you not written this post your whole life might have turned out completely differently.

 

[one]

It's the butterfly effect. Had you not written this post your whole life might have turned out completely differently.

And mine, and yours...

Waiting for the hurricane now...