The Ref Stop

Assisting the Center Referee on Calls

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NOVARef

Active Member
Hello, so just to start off, I'm in the US and we do not use club assistant referees in any of the leagues I referee in. Everyone is a certified referee. And more often than not, we do a set of games and we rotate between AR and center referee. My point there is that the referee crew should be somewhat equally reliable. However, experience levels often vary dramatically between the referee crew of course. With that said, my question is...how do you handles situation where you just think the center referee blows a call? Often you will hear from the coachers, players, crowd, etc. "Come on AR, help out the center. You saw that." However, in these instances, I keep my flag down because I believe the center referee was in position to see the foul, or who last touched the ball, etc. and it's his/her call. Even if I disagree with the call, I'm not going to pop my flag to question him/her. His foul tolerance may be a little different from mine for example. When I AR, I kind of have the mindset of I'm there to call offside offense, out of bounds/throw ins, corners, goal kicks, fouls near me, and other things we may discuss in the pre game meeting, but I'm not there to try to overturn calls made by the center referee when I believe he saw the play. Any advice on how to handle this and maybe what to say to coaches when they want you to try to get involved? Thank you in advance.
 
The Ref Stop
Go with what your referee has (hopefully) advised you in their pre match brief.
You're absolutely spot on in your assumption that all decisions (except normally for offside) are the referees alone and it's not normally your place to be trying to come in and "overrule" them.
If the "foul" is within your area of credibility and you think the referee should give it but doesn't, you're well within your rights to flag for it.
As far as the referee blowing for a foul that you "disagree" with, there's absolutely nothing you can do except maybe discuss it with them at half-time or post-match.
And by the way, coaches/benches shouting that cliche of "Come on Lino - you've got to help the ref out there" is of course the most annoying and at the same time pointless and ridiculous thing that anyone can ever shout at an AR. Especially if the referee has blown for a FK that you yourself didn't flag for!!
Treat it with the contempt it deserves... ;)
 
Kes said:
Go with what your referee has (hopefully) advised you in their pre match brief.
You're absolutely spot on in your assumption that all decisions (except normally for offside) are the referees alone and it's not normally your place to be trying to come in and "overrule" them.
If the "foul" is within your area of credibility and you think the referee should give it but doesn't, you're well within your rights to flag for it.
As far as the referee blowing for a foul that you "disagree" with, there's absolutely nothing you can do except maybe discuss it with them at half-time or post-match.
And by the way, coaches/benches shouting that cliche of "Come on Lino - you've got to help the ref out there" is of course the most annoying and at the same time pointless and ridiculous thing that anyone can ever shout at an AR. Especially if the referee has blown for a FK that you yourself didn't flag for!!
Treat it with the contempt it deserves... ;)
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Thank you for the reply. Yes, 100% correct that once a referee blows the whistle and calls a foul, that's over and done with. I guess what I was more talking about are calls that the center referee does not make....or makes but gets wrong such as corner vs goal kicks, throw in direction, etc. What got me thinking about this is, last night, I had a play that I think was DOGSO red but center referee was right on top of the play, gave a yellow card, and didn't even look towards me. I mentioned it at halftime that I think he should check with his ARs on calls like that. But I don't feel it's right to pop my flag or "yell to him if he doesn't look my way) and try to get him to change the call.
 
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NOVARef said:
Thank you for the reply. Yes, 100% correct that once a referee blows the whistle and calls a foul, that's over and done with. I guess what I was more talking about are calls that the center referee does not make....or makes but gets wrong such as corner vs goal kicks, throw in direction, etc. What got me thinking about this is, last night, I had a play that I think was DOGSO red but center referee was right on top of the play, gave a yellow card, and didn't even look towards me. I mentioned it at halftime that I think he should check with his ARs on calls like that. But I don't feel it's right to pop my flag or "yell to him if he doesn't look my way) and try to get him to change the call.
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Yes, that's often where buzzer flags are helpful, just to get him to look over at you but like you say, especially with such a KMI as DOGSO, he's right there and has made his call. You wouldn't have done your team of 3 any favours by trying to get involved there mate. 😉
 
NOVARef said:
I mentioned it at halftime that I think he should check with his ARs on calls like that.
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I really don't like this, checking with ARs business...it rarely brings about a better result overall.
If you have seen something as the referee and have made a decision then that's it. If you don't know you look to your AR for input and that's their signal to get involved.

Unless there is something abundantly unclear that you genuinely don't know that has a serious impact on the outcome of a decision you have made then fair enough but for me it generally does only one of 2 things
1) throws AR under a bus or puts them in a difficult position
2) looks indecisive

There are times when a conversation has to happen such as interference at offside etc. But in the main I'm not a fan of just checking a decision with an AR.
 
@JamesL is of course spot on. (He referees at a level higher than the majority of us on here).
If the referee wants or needs your input with anything (such as a penalty decision or a potential offside goal/no goal call) then they'll come over and ask for it. ;) :cool:
 
Thanks. As for "checking with the AR"...I didn't mean to imply that the center referee should run over to the AR and have a conversation, but just eye contact where maybe the AR can give a signal to assist. But I agree and I posted this for confirmation that the AR should not force himself into these calls by raising his flag. Thanks for the confirmation...but the other part of my question was...what do you say to coaches when they are in your ear to "help out the center". Do you just tell him that it's the center's call or the center didn't ask for my opinion or something like that?
 
I would never say "it's his call"--that sounds like you are disagreeing with the call, even if you aren't. I've often used "he's 30 yards closer than we are and had a good angle."

On the R making eye contact for possible assistance, it really depends. The R is only going to do that if he thinks he needs assistance. Often that isn't the case, even on a missed call.
 
NOVARef said:
Thanks. As for "checking with the AR"...I didn't mean to imply that the center referee should run over to the AR and have a conversation, but just eye contact where maybe the AR can give a signal to assist. But I agree and I posted this for confirmation that the AR should not force himself into these calls by raising his flag. Thanks for the confirmation...but the other part of my question was...what do you say to coaches when they are in your ear to "help out the center". Do you just tell him that it's the center's call or the center didn't ask for my opinion or something like that?
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Pretty much.
Something along the lines of: "He's the referee not me. He's made his call and if he wants our opinion he'll ask for it!!".
Then just zone them out. ;):cool:
 
socal lurker said:
I would never say "it's his call"--that sounds like you are disagreeing with the call, even if you aren't. I've often used "he's 30 yards closer than we are and had a good angle."
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Not much use if the "foul" has taken place 5 yards from the touchline in front of the benches though ... ;)
 
ARs are not consultants, they are assistants. And players have this expectation.

Had a referee on the weekend on a top div open age (I was senior AR) who gave a penalty on the far side to me, then went on to have a chat with the other AR and came back and kept his decision. While he thought it looked good, all it did was showed he had no confidence in his own original decision.

@JamesL correctly pointed out on some offside occasions AR chat can have a better outcome. Another time is before making final decisions at some mass cons. Even if they have nothing to add, it gives you more thinking time.
 
NOVARef said:
Thanks. As for "checking with the AR"...I didn't mean to imply that the center referee should run over to the AR and have a conversation, but just eye contact where maybe the AR can give a signal to assist. But I agree and I posted this for confirmation that the AR should not force himself into these calls by raising his flag. Thanks for the confirmation...but the other part of my question was...what do you say to coaches when they are in your ear to "help out the center". Do you just tell him that it's the center's call or the center didn't ask for my opinion or something like that?
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This is a great question and one of the Hardest bits about being AR, especially on the dugout side.

If you are in agreement with the referee this is far easier as you are supportive.

One thing I say to my Dugout AR is to not defend the indefensible but to try and be diplomatic.

"I can see what you've seen but look at where the referee is" praying he is right on top of course.
"The referee has a great view, he doesn't need my input"
"The referee specifically asked me to not involve"
"Just because you havent seen us communicate doesnt mean it hasn't happened."

Be interested to hear some other stock phrases other have that work for them too.

Oh, and @socal lurker has reminded me about the phrase I use when the referee has blown the whistle..
"What are you expecting me to do? i can't un-blow the whistle!!"
 
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Kes said:
Not much use if the "foul" has taken place 5 yards from the touchline in front of the benches though ... ;)
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At least with the folks I work with, if the play was right in front of me and I'm closer, they would expect me to flag for a foul there. (Of course, that doesn't help if the R whistles a non-existent foul.)
 
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Don’t break the team.

Have some phrases ready for the coaches:
“Sometimes we see different things “
“My ref was in a great position for that one”
“We have to trust the assistant, he has the best view for offside”
“Trust my man, he’s a professional”!
 
If I made a binary mistake and was bleeding out all over the place, I'd want my AR to be buzzing me
The area of credibility extends to the entire FOP for any serious offence to which I (the R) have my back turned
In essence, there are exceptional circumstances in which a very skilled team of 3 can break the normal rules of engagement (IMHO)
 
Unless you have comms it is very difficult to get involved, even if you think the referee has made a clanger. If, for example, the referee gives a penalty and you don't think it was, what are you going to do about it? In making the decision he has potentially upset one team, if you call him over for a chat it really isn't going to end well. If he sticks with the penalty he's definitely upset one team and will get comments like "even your lino knows it isn't a penalty". If he reverses it the other team are fuming, and the referee's credibility is shot to pieces for the rest of the game.

If I've given a decision I only want my ARs getting involved in very specific situations, such as.
  • I'm totally incorrect in law. And by that I don't mean I've seen something and come to the wrong decision, rather I have seen something and applied law wrong. For example, cautioned sometime twice and not sent off or missed up the restart after penalty encroachment. If that happens come on the pitch to stop me restarting if necessary.
  • I've given a penalty for handball but you are 100% certain that the ball hit an attacker's arm, and the reactions of every player backs this up.
  • I've made a decision that is so shockingly bad that all players from one team are laughing and all of the other team are frothing at the mouth. it has to be utterly, utterly ridiculous for you to get involved, and cannot involve any level of subjectivity
 
@NOVARef Hello from a fellow US-based referee!

I find I have to deal with this fairly frequently as AR1. Sometimes the coach will ask me directly about a call and sometimes they're complaining directly to the CR; either way, I feel like I can often have a positive impact on the situation.

It's our goal as the AR to assist the CR in any way possible, right? So a quick chat with a coach may help them dissent less or just in general bother the CR less. That's a win for the third team.

This can be hard though because you're walking a fine line between:
  • placating the coach
  • not throwing your CR under the bus
I think you're spot on that the CR will always have a different angle than you and the coach have from the sideline. That's what I often use when I hear a coach arguing a call.
  • "They may have seen something from their angle, coach."
  • "The game's getting a little feisty out there. They're just bringing it back under control."
  • "They may have seen X from their angle, coach" (even if you don't think they did)
No need to have a full-blown conversation about it but a few small words and giving more reasonable explanations to help sell certain calls can be helpful.

Hope this helps :)
 
Kes said:
And by the way, coaches/benches shouting that cliche of "Come on Lino - you've got to help the ref out there" is of course the most annoying and at the same time pointless and ridiculous thing that anyone can ever shout at an AR. Especially if the referee has blown for a FK that you yourself didn't flag for!!
Treat it with the contempt it deserves... ;)
Click to expand...
Without any shadow of a doubt the single most annoying comment a player/coach makes at you when being an AR

Usually happens after R has blown a decision absolutely miles away from me :mad:
 
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