The Ref Stop

Assistant Referee Feedback

Harey

Harey

Member
Hi,

After qualifying 2 years ago, did my first senior semi-professional game on the line in a National League friendly. Felt the game went well, but had two flash points where I was surrounded on the line.

1. Mass Con in the middle of the pitch, referee dealt with it, and gave about a yellow card for the challenge. I was then confronted to get involved of a retaliatory action, which I didn’t have a clear view. So I held fast.

2. Tackle near me, which the home team felt was a foul, nothing given by ref, so again surrounded me to intervene. I also didn’t feel I could override the ref and it was too marginal.

Then I got a of grieve with “don’t know what the point of you being here is” for a few minutes.

So the help is, as a assistant, how and when do you get involved? I thought only on the refs request, unless you see an obvious missed foul?

Thanks
Chris
 
Last edited:
The Ref Stop
Harey said:
Hi,

After qualifying 2 years ago, did my first senior semi-professional game on the line in the National League. Felt the game went well, but had two flash points where I was surrounded on the line.

1. Mass Con in the middle of the pitch, referee dealt with it, and gave about a yellow card for the challenge. I was then confronted to get involved of a retaliatory action, which I didn’t have a clear view. So I held fast.

2. Tackle which the away team felt was a foul, nothing given by ref, so again surrounded to intervene. I also didn’t feel I could override the ref and it was too marginal.

Then I got a of grieve with “don’t know what the point of you being here is” for a few minutes.

So the help is, as a assistant, how and when do you get involved? I thought only on the refs request.

Thanks
Chris
Click to expand...


Well its of course difficult to picture the incidents without being there.
General rule of thumb at a mass con, and by your saying it was a mass con, is, sanction the challenge and then a minimum of one from each team for the flare up.
To not do so sends out a message that its ok to be involved in a mass con. Its not
If you never saw the act, then, you cannot do anything about
By your wording it as a mass con, it sounds like as AR you did have a role to play, whether that be entering the pitch to get a closer view, or be a presence, or, help defuse, putting out small fires, usually aiming for a triangle view from the three officials, subject to AR 1 dealing with tech area.

the second point, credibility is key. If its central, and the referee has a great view of it, and unless its a travesty to the lotg, no, leave it to the referee
if its credible, if its in keeping with the decisions being given ( or not), then, ultimately remember, you are there to assist the referee.
Its not stated in your post but make sure the ref has not seen the foul and is playing advantage, hopefully with the ref signalling and shouting ' advantage'
Mostly, the credible calls will be the ones in close proximity to you, but its not a hard and fast rule, if its vital you call it, for the benefit of the game and because it simply must be a fk, then, you have a duty to assist....if the ref decides not to tke your fk, so be it. You have assisted, the ref has acknowledged your input

its a balancing act, sometimes you do need to not flag/flag when if you were referee you would/would not whistle.
 
Not sure which level of game this was, as National League in England/Wales doesn't restart for a couple of weeks, but whatever the level the answer is much the same.
Dependent upon the pre-match guidance from the referee, you are there to add value to the decision making process . . . if the referee has "HELP!" written on his forehead it's easy to get involved by offering an opinion, but in all other cases it's a judgement call.
In the case of mass confrontation guidance, some referees will say "AR1 watch the reds, AR2 watch the blues" and most will say you will get together for a discussion before yellows/reds/restart.
If the referee does not give clear guidance pre-match, ask them for clarification.
Whatever you do or don't do, players will offer an opinion, which is par for the course.
Hope that helps.
 
Thanks. It was a friendly, so pre-season.

The ref did say to watch players, which I did; but he dealt with it, so I wasn’t sure how I would contribute without him coming over for additional advice.

I guess trying to learn here, how to ‘get involved’ versus upsetting the ref, by getting involved!
 
Harey said:
Thanks. It was a friendly, so pre-season.

The ref did say to watch players, which I did; but he dealt with it, so I wasn’t sure how I would contribute without him coming over for additional advice.

I guess trying to learn here, how to ‘get involved’ versus upsetting the ref, by getting involved!
Click to expand...
Most referees will include in their pre-match brief a statement around "If gou have got something for me . . ." for situations like this.
Usually it involves two paces onto the field of play to indicate "Can we talk before play restarts?"
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
Most referees will include in their pre-match brief a statement around "If gou have got something for me . . ." for situations like this.
Usually it involves two paces onto the field of play to indicate "Can we talk before play restarts?"
Click to expand...


I have never heard or been party to this.

Raising of the flag is the communication method , in absence of comms
 
Anubis said:
I have never heard or been party to this.

Raising of the flag is the communication method , in absence of comms
Click to expand...

Disagree. There is nothing wrong with specialized signals for a referee team. The problem with a flag alone can be that the R thinks he knows what it is and may wave it down while thinking it is something other than what it is. It tell my ARs that if they hreally need to talk to me, to hold the flag across their chest. Very, very rarely happens, but is useful in those rare cases.
 
socal lurker said:
Disagree. There is nothing wrong with specialized signals for a referee team. The problem with a flag alone can be that the R thinks he knows what it is and may wave it down while thinking it is something other than what it is. It tell my ARs that if they hreally need to talk to me, to hold the flag across their chest. Very, very rarely happens, but is useful in those rare cases.
Click to expand...

There is a global signal for attracting the referee attention, there is no requirement to construct personal ones
Flag up.
in your example, where the ref thinks its for something else and waves it down, the flag stays up.
Flag up, along witn a shout of refs name,

must be a regional thing and if thats your thing you cannot be faulted but there is no recognised AR signal for flag across chest. I would not be doing that on your line
 
Last edited:
Anubis said:
There is a global signal for attracting the referee attention, there is no requirement to construct personal ones
Flag up.
in your example, where the ref thinks its for something else and waves it down, the flag stays up.
Flag up, along witn a shout of refs name,

must be a regional thing and if thats your thing you cannot be faulted but there is no recognised AR signal for flag across chest. I would not be doing that on your line
Click to expand...
The benefit of a subtle pre-agreed signal is that it reduces the pressure on the AR (for example if they are drawing the referee's attention to the need for further action in a mass confrontation situation)
In the absence of comms sets, referees use a variety of subtle indicators to assist with match control.
For in-play situations, e. g. an offence near the AR, the flag is the obvious signal, but if the AR believes a card is needed an additional subtle signal (e. g. a tap on the breast pocket) is commonplace at all levels in England.
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
The benefit of a subtle pre-agreed signal is that it reduces the pressure on the AR (for example if they are drawing the referee's attention to the need for further action in a mass confrontation situation)
In the absence of comms sets, referees use a variety of subtle indicators to assist with match control.
For in-play situations, e. g. an offence near the AR, the flag is the obvious signal, but if the AR believes a card is needed an additional subtle signal (e. g. a tap on the breast pocket) is commonplace at all levels in England.
Click to expand...

Great, bear in mind though England is but 1 country on earth.
there is nothing subtle about putting the flag across the chest!
 
Anubis said:
must be a regional thing and if thats your thing you cannot be faulted but there is no recognised AR signal for flag across chest. I would not be doing that on your line
Click to expand...
And given that this signal was removed from use in England 7 years ago, it’s not exactly relevant anyway!
 
A fairly unusual instruction I got recently, but thought it quite clever, was if I thought GK moved before a penalty save, to just stay where I was. That way no one blames me (The AR) and think its the ref's call.

Obviously if I'm happy with the save, I just get back in position asap.
 
PinnerPaul said:
A fairly unusual instruction I got recently, but thought it quite clever, was if I thought GK moved before a penalty save, to just stay where I was. That way no one blames me (The AR) and think its the ref's call.

Obviously if I'm happy with the save, I just get back in position asap.
Click to expand...

The flag across the chest for “I need to talk to you now!” Is pretty common around here In concept, though rarely used because not needed. (Frankly, it is probably more of a secur blanket for inexperienced ARs to know they can get me if they need me than a useful tool with an experienced crew—with an experienced AR I can tell from other cues that he really needs me.)

Subtle signals for GK infractions on PKs used to be common. In the US I think they cycled through three different ones. The one time I used the subtle one taught in the US, the R completely missed it. I would note that the magic book now expressly says that the AR should raise a flag for GK infractions that should be called. (I follow that with experienced ARs, but on lower level games with inexperienced ARs, I’ll ask for a more subtle signal, both to being the flack to me instead of them and to make it less obvious if I overrule them. With an experienced AR that I trust, I’m not second guess8ng them on that call.)
 
If by National League you mean The National League, then I don't mean any disrespect but you shouldn't have been anywhere near a game of that level for your first ever semi-pro line, even as a friendly. Those games should have at least a level 4 as the junior assistant.

Others have covered how and when to get involved, but the key thing is your position compared to the referee. If he is closer you only want to be getting involved if he couldn't have seen something because it was on his blind side, if you are closer then have a quick look at what he is doing first before getting involved if you think that is the right thing to do. Unfortunately you will always get players and coaching staff urging you to get involved even when on the far side of the pitch, something 4th officials are also saddled with, I tended to use a line like "I can see your point from this view but the referee was looking at it from a completely different angle".
 
Thanks @RustyRef to your point I saw the ref as very experienced, and he handled the Mass Con and the possible foul without any eye contact in my direction, so I didn’t feel the need to get involved.

I was a last minute stand in, and took the opportunity to watch/learn; thus the request for guidance on here, what I could do better.

Thanks all, great feedback.
 
RustyRef said:
If by National League you mean The National League, then I don't mean any disrespect but you shouldn't have been anywhere near a game of that level for your first ever semi-pro line, even as a friendly. Those games should have at least a level 4 as the junior assistant.

Others have covered how and when to get involved, but the key thing is your position compared to the referee. If he is closer you only want to be getting involved if he couldn't have seen something because it was on his blind side, if you are closer then have a quick look at what he is doing first before getting involved if you think that is the right thing to do. Unfortunately you will always get players and coaching staff urging you to get involved even when on the far side of the pitch, something 4th officials are also saddled with, I tended to use a line like "I can see your point from this view but the referee was looking at it from a completely different angle".
Click to expand...

just be wary though that proximity whilst majority of time will be key, its not set in stone.
one of the best AR calls I saw was an AR flagging to inform ref of a red card tackle in the right back position, ball cleared by defender, ref followed ball, striker clattered defender, so 55/60 yards away, AR was the one to call it.
other AR looking along offside line, it was left to the furthest away AR to get involved.
 
socal lurker said:
Disagree. There is nothing wrong with specialized signals for a referee team. The problem with a flag alone can be that the R thinks he knows what it is and may wave it down while thinking it is something other than what it is. It tell my ARs that if they hreally need to talk to me, to hold the flag across their chest. Very, very rarely happens, but is useful in those rare cases.
Click to expand...
To older referees - that is a penalty!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top