Assistant abused

[lincs22]

what about if a player turns to you and very calmly says "ref, he's cheating"
would you dignify that with a response or is that a send off ?

Not sure what my response would be other than a verbal "keep your opinion to yourself matey". Because he's said it only to me and it's about somebody else, I can't see how it falls within the remit of "OFFINABUS" and therefore a red card.

Because isn't calling somebody a cheat - insulting?

 

[richard ramjane]

Because isn't calling somebody a cheat - insulting?

well, i guess technically he's saying the CAR is cheating and i'm either not good enough to notice, or that i'm doing nothing about it ... which yes.. is very offensive

 

[Kes]

Because isn't calling somebody a cheat - insulting?

Not to me.
Probably is to the person he's calling a cheat. But not if he can't hear it.
I'm certainly not going to brandish a red card at someone based on a "what if" notion.
I'm a football referee - not a member of the "thought police".

 

[Russell Jones]

I was doing the lines, I gave a clear offside and the player shouted for me to "f*** off".

The ref didnt do anything, and I was wondering if that was a clear red or what?

For me that's obvious dissent and a clear yellow at least. Anything further would depend on the volume and aggression with which it was said.

 

[Monotone Whistle]

You shouldn't let dissent go unnoticed, but it's the referee's call as to what sanction he imposes. Whether the assistant feels insulted is, unfortunately, irrelevant.

A direct F-off to me is always at least a caution, so a direct F-off to my assistant would be exactly the same. In many games it would be a send off, but (dare I say it) I can be a bit "creative".

 

[Kes]

but (dare I say it) I can be a bit "creative".

Don't mention the "C Word".

I did once - but I think I got away with it.

 

[lincs22]

Because isn't calling somebody a cheat - insulting?

Not to me.
Probably is to the person he's calling a cheat. But not if he can't hear it.
I'm certainly not going to brandish a red card at someone based on a "what if" notion.
I'm a football referee - not a member of the "thought police".

@Kes - most people on this forum would be dismissing if a player called them a C*** (cannot use the C word). So you feel that if they call somebody else a cheat, it is not insulting.

The laws of the game don't specify who words are aimed at has to be offended, insulted or abused; just the words used are
Offensive, Insulting or Abusive.

 

[jofusref]

the word cheat means red always

 

[Russell Jones]

the word cheat means red always

Said out loud or in anger I completely agree with you. Said in a calm, quiet way to me (about a CAR) out of ear shot of other players I'd have a different point of view .. especially if, in MY opinion, one or two of the CARs decisions had been incorrect or dubious. Let's face it, it's hardly unheard of for a CAR to favour his own team

 

[Kes]

@Kes - most people on this forum would be dismissing if a player called them a C*** (cannot use the C word). So you feel that if they call somebody else a cheat, it is not insulting.

The laws of the game don't specify who words are aimed at has to be offended, insulted or abused; just the words used are
Offensive, Insulting or Abusive.

That's the trouble with proscriptive stuff like that. It's open to interpretation. I don't find the scenario given by Richard any of those 3 adjectives mate - sorry, but there you go. If it's said/suggested to me in a non aggressive/abusive manner, and nobody else hears it, it's not for me to be "offended" or find it "insulting" on behalf of anybody else. Neither is it for the FA or any other referee to tell me what I should find insulting.
Your comparison above is a poor one, since calling somebody a C*** is generally always all 3 of the OFFINABUS.

If a player quietly turned to you and calmly said that he thought the CAR was cheating, maybe you should consider that he might be and that you've missed a thing or two instead of sanctimoniously reaching for the red card.

 

[zarathustra]

Surely in the example given above you need to take it in context.

Is the player calling the assistant a cheat, or is he raising a concern with the referee that the assistant may not be acting impartially?

Edit, wot Kes said.

 

[jofusref]

Said out loud or in anger I completely agree with you. Said in a calm, quiet way to me (about a CAR) out of ear shot of other players I'd have a different point of view .. especially if, in MY opinion, one or two of the CARs decisions had been incorrect or dubious. Let's face it, it's hardly unheard of for a CAR to favour his own team

thats exactly why in scotland we dont have car

 

[Russell Jones]

thats exactly why in scotland we dont have car

Why change from the tried and trusted horse and cart eh

 

[JakeRef]

For me that's obvious dissent and a clear yellow at least. Anything further would depend on the volume and aggression with which it was said.

It was quite loud, the spectators could hear it. I told the ref, he didn't seem to care to much...

 

[DanCohen17]

Foul and Abusive language IMO i would have given a straight red........

First things first, Foul And Abusive IS NOT A LAW!!
The law clearly states, as others have used in their posts, Offensive, Insulting And/Or Abusive Language (shortened to OFFINABUS)

Onto OP, yes you were correct to award a red card.
When I was in the middle, my tolerance level from players towards my AR's (CAR/NAR) was far lower than it was towards me (incidentally, similar to the way I live my life in that I'd rather people started fights/arguments with me than with others around me). With that in mind, any OFFINABUS that the AR felt was the case, was immediately a red card. Be that f*** off, c*** or anything else. Equally, if I heard something towards an AR and felt it was OFFINABUS, they were gone.

 

[HoofItYouDonkey]

It was quite loud, the spectators could hear it. I told the ref, he didn't seem to care to much...

If a player says 'f*** off' at me/ar in the instant I blow the whistle to penalise him/her, he gets a yellow. If he waits 2/3 seconds and then says it, i.e. it then becomes premeditated instead of an instant reaction, he gets a red.

 

[Markt]

Several years ago I was doing a line on a league cup final with a fairly large crowd including young children behind me. The side attacking wasted a good opportunity and one of their players shouted a tirade of f and c words at a team mate standing a few yards away. This was heard by the crowd because I heard several people say that his language was disgraceful. He was only a few yards across from me and since the referee, who was also close by, wasn't doing anything I asked him to "keep it down a bit, please player" he responded by shouting "f... Off!" at me. Again the referee did nothing. I signalled to him that I wanted to speak to him and told him what had happened. He spoke to the player but did nothing more. From body language it was not a reprimand, more of a "listen, the lino's getting busy so leave him alone" type conversation. I wouldn't have got involved but he wasn't and it needed to be dealt with.
I heard several people in the crowd say that "at least you tried linesman. Well done." Having been openly abused by a player and then not supported by the referee I felt like putting the flag down and letting him get on with it. I should have left it to the referee to deal with but he obviously wasn't going to and the player's language was frankly shocking. It needed to be cut out. A large proportion of the crowd were present to watch another game on after our one, so were totally unconnected with the foul-mouthed player.
After the game the referee told me that "I could have booked the player but I didn't think the game needed it." I told him "no, you SHOULD have sent him off whether the game needed it or not!"
As a referee I am always harder on language to my assistants than to myself. I can 'not hear it' or go somewhere else. The AR doesn't have that choice and has to stay there. I don't use CAR for that reason because I would have to deal with it, even if I felt there was some justification.
At least the player kept his language down after I spoke to him, but I felt angry that a player shouting abuse directly at me didn't even have to pay a tenner for it. LWR with an example of weak refereeing!