The Ref Stop

Arsenal v West Ham

Donate to RefChat

Help keep RefChat running, any donation would be appreciated

L

ladbroke8745

Censorship
MLS gets sent off after VAR check.

Great use of VAR but surely Craig Pawson can see that is red. It may be half way line, but between him and his assistant they should be able to say that that is DOGSO.
Raya was virtually on the half way line. Kudus was easily retaining possession with nearly an open goal to aim at.

Incidentally, Pawson was on the VAR last night where he didn't suggest a look at the penalty appeal in the Brentford game.
 
The Ref Stop
Yeah I'm just not sure why we need VAR here. Surely Pawson and the AR can work together to get that one correct.
 
The 4 considerations don’t include anything about the goalkeeper being off his line.

I think there were significant enough doubts over distance from goal and the location of the other defender.

I would have been happy with yellow. But this was also a very difficult decision. Very rare. And we don’t have reference points for what football expects here.

Pawson was smart to YC because it was Skelly. TBH I expect this RC to be overturned by the panel like the last one!!!
 
cwyeary said:
"Location and number of defenders" doesn't include the GK being off the line? I'd say the location of the GK was a big part of this being an absolute nailed on DOGSO case.
Click to expand...
Interesting case. Does the GK off the line make it a more likely DOGSO? I don’t know based on the considerations.
 
santa sangria said:
The 4 considerations don’t include anything about the goalkeeper being off his line.

I think there were significant enough doubts over distance from goal and the location of the other defender.

I would have been happy with yellow. But this was also a very difficult decision. Very rare. And we don’t have reference points for what football expects here.

Pawson was smart to YC because it was Skelly. TBH I expect this RC to be overturned by the panel like the last one!!!
Click to expand...
Gabriel was in the West Ham half as the foul was committed. Easy DOGSO.

Arsenal will not appeal that. They have nothing to appeal against
 
santa sangria said:
Interesting case. Does the GK off the line make it a more likely DOGSO? I don’t know based on the considerations.
Click to expand...
Of course it does. Depends how far off the line and his location with regards to attackers and ball (hence consideration "location and number of defenders"). For instance given keeper being the only player who can use their hands in PA, them being outside the PA increases the likelihood of scoring a goal. Much easier to chip or kick around the torso of another defender than keeper in the PA.

We need to be clear that the 4 siderations given in law are not exclusive. They must be used but not the only considerations that can be used. The overarching question is still the main DODGSO clause.

Having said all that, for me yellow was not a clear and obvious error.

As a side note, Pawson can be clearly seen telling West Ham players "it's too far".
 
one said:
Of course it does. Depends how far off the line and his location with regards to attackers and ball (hence consideration "location and number of defenders"). For instance given keeper being the only player who can use their hands in PA, them being outside the PA increases the likelihood of scoring a goal. Much easier to chip or kick around the torso of another defender than keeper in the PA.

We need to be clear that the 4 siderations given in law are not exclusive. They must be used but not the only considerations that can be used. The overarching question is still the main DODGSO clause.

Having said all that, for me yellow was not a clear and obvious error.

As a side note, Pawson can be clearly seen telling West Ham players "it's too far".
Click to expand...
Thus not giving consideration to the keepers location.
Literally only Raya to beat who was, by now, attempting to run back to his area and not attempting to challenge Kudus himself (unlike what he done in the 97th minute, with JWP if i recall), and little less than half a pitch to do so.
 
…the second pic is about the latest you could take a snapshot.

In both pics the other defender is closer to the goal than the attacker.

I think there’s serious doubt about distance from goal and location/number of defenders.

I think VAR has rerefereed an acceptable decision here. Arsenal would be nuts not to appeal.

Really poor VAR intervention IMHO.
 
santa sangria said:
View attachment 7943
I think that’s the start of the foul. I think the other defender should be factored in.

View attachment 7944

The
Click to expand...
santa sangria said:
…the second pic is about the latest you could take a snapshot.

In both pics the other defender is closer to the goal than the attacker.

I think there’s serious doubt about distance from goal and location/number of defenders.

I think VAR has rerefereed an acceptable decision here. Arsenal would be nuts not to appeal.

Really poor VAR intervention IMHO.
Click to expand...

I think we need to look at the bigger picture here. A shot on goal from 5 yards inside Arsenal half into an unguarded goal with no one to make an impact is well and truly a GSO. The second defender has zero chance to impact that shot.

1740318198791.png
 
one said:
I think we need to look at the bigger picture here. A shot on goal from 5 yards inside Arsenal half into an unguarded goal with no one to make an impact is well and truly a GSO. The second defender has zero chance to impact that shot.

View attachment 7946
Click to expand...
But is it an OGSO? 😉

The considerations are just that, considerations. Ultimately you are deciding, had the foul not happened, would the player have an OGSO. For me, yes.
 
Runner Ref said:
But is it an OGSO? 😉

The considerations are just that, considerations. Ultimately you are deciding, had the foul not happened, would the player have an OGSO. For me, yes.
Click to expand...
For me, at this level, also yes. Almost all players at that level are expected to make that shot and many have done so (even with the keeper in the PA). However if in another referee's opinion, it is not an OGSO, I wouldn't call it a clear and obvious error.
 
Did Arteta even complain about the red card post match? I know the opinions of fans and managers is not what we base calls on, but from what I've seen this has been nearly universally accepted by Arsenal fans as a red card.
 
Out of interest, is this a DOGSO because of the keepers positioning or should it be classed as a DOGSO even if the keeper was in his 18 yard box? I mean the other defender was nowhere near and the attacker would be through on goal.
 
cwyeary said:
Did Arteta even complain about the red card post match? I know the opinions of fans and managers is not what we base calls on, but from what I've seen this has been nearly universally accepted by Arsenal fans as a red card.
Click to expand...
This.
I think sometimes as referees we can overthink the technicalities of certain situatons.
I know an Arsenal fan who has moaned about every red card they've had this season and was actually there on Saturday and said as soon as Pawson went yellow on field he was just waiting for the review to overturn it. Arteta, when asked, said he would rather concentrate on his teams performance than focus on the red card decision. Given the reaction to all their other reds this season, that's as close to a concession as you're gonna get.

The goalkeepers position is everything here. I don't like to criticise referees at all, but personally I think it's a rather poor decision to go yellow on field.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top