ARS vs LEI

[JamesL]

Above is the clarification that was issued by ifab at the time, before it became enshrined in the 2016-2017 laws of the game.
The only thing up for debate here, which is subjective, not objective, is the obvious action and how close Xhaka is to the ball and goal keeper.
The ball practically goes as close to him as is possible without him touching it..
His being there might have impacted Schmeichels positioning and him jumping to move out the way could be considered as an obvious action.
What it isn't is a line of sight issue.
This feels like a not offside call to me, the ball is already past KS before the obvious action, however my thoughts are drawn to the definition given for 'close' so I can see How it could be given..

 

[ASM]

Interesting that no one has mentioned impact to Leicester no 2. Does Xhaka’s movement out of the way of the ball impact on his ability to play the ball?

 

[Ryanj91]

This is the keeper's attempt to make the save. Xhaka isn't stopping him whatsoever. Xhaka wouldn't have even been in his line of vision.
Xhaka doesn't meet any of the criteria for being offside.
VAR obviously didn't use all of the angles available. Had they seen this angle, you'd expect the goal to have stood.

The keeper had no chance of saving it anyway because he gambled and was moving towards the front post.

 

[Ben448844]

Is it probable that in subjective cases such as this one, the VAR official will almost always rule out the goal simply because ruling out a goal is seen as being a slightly safer bet than allowing a subjective/controversial goal?

I'm not attributing blame, just suggesting that when its subjective its human nature to play it safe and disallow the goal?

 

[andy75]

I'm thinking offside....Xhakas position is impacting Schmeichals ability to make a dive along the line , especially with his movement to get out of the way

 

[AlexF]

Video of all angles, plus a VR simulation at the end... haha.

Streamable Video

Watch this video on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[Mr Dean]

You've got a thread full of people who disagree with you on your last point - so at the very least, that is subjective. Trying to paint it as objective is disingenuous.

Some people think the moon is made out of cheese; however, it isn't. There's nothing subjective about it. Just because some people are incorrect, it doesn't make it subjective.

 

[socal lurker]

Is it probable that in subjective cases such as this one, the VAR official will almost always rule out the goal simply because ruling out a goal is seen as being a slightly safer bet than allowing a subjective/controversial goal?

I'm not attributing blame, just suggesting that when its subjective its human nature to play it safe and disallow the goal?

Disagree. I think you are leaving out the fact it was ruled OS on the field. The Q for the VAR is not what the best call is, but whether it was clear error (except for black/white issues such as OSP or ball over a line or did it touch the hand). I don't think VAR would have reversed this if it had been called not OS.

Video of all angles, plus a VR simulation at the end... haha.

I saw these same angles posted elsewhere and it did affect my view, and I definitely agree that the better call here is not OS as Law 11 is currently written. But I'm not persuaded that this is the kind of injustice VAR is designed to fix or that it is inconsistent with the SOTG for it to be OS. I'll confess as a former GK I can be biased toward protecting GKs, but I just don't have a lot of sympathy for an attacker who is a position solely for the purpose of messing with the GK ending up getting called for OS because the R thinks he messed with the GK.

(The case for impeding is probably better than for OS--the attacker moves into the GK as the GK starts to move, which is presumably after the CK is taken. )

 

[santa sangria]

This is the keeper's attempt to make the save. Xhaka isn't stopping him whatsoever. Xhaka wouldn't have even been in his line of vision.
Xhaka doesn't meet any of the criteria for being offside.
VAR obviously didn't use all of the angles available. Had they seen this angle, you'd expect the goal to have stood.

The keeper had no chance of saving it anyway because he gambled and was moving towards the front post.
View attachment 4650

He’s still where the GK is thinking about diving.
Still easy offside for me.

 

[one]

He’s still where the GK is thinking about diving.
Still easy offside for me.

Haha. So if he was standing on the far post and the goal keeper was 'thinking' about diving there, would you still give the offside?

The goalkeeper had no chance of diving there due to his current position and his direction of movement. He was wrongfooted.

 

[GraemeS]

Some people think the moon is made out of cheese; however, it isn't. There's nothing subjective about it. Just because some people are incorrect, it doesn't make it subjective.

I mean...you're simultaneously right, but also talking nonsense at the same time, which is quite impressive.

Yes, it is objectively true that a player in an offside position will either be affecting or not affecting the actions of another player. BUT. We're not watching a sport where players immediately own up to offences and are taken on their word, we're watching a sport where an independent observer is asked to make a judgement.

So therefore, the question has to be "does the referee/AR/forum member believe that the actions of offside-positioned player A impacted on the ability of player B to play the ball?" And that question - what is the most likely truth from the perspective of an outside observer? - is a subjective one.

What your unnecessarily condescending posts are actually saying is that it is your subjective option that this meets the criteria. So while there may be an objectively correct answer, you don't have access to that answer without a neural link to the player's brain in that moment. None of us do. All we can do is apply the criteria and express an opinion.

 

[santa sangria]

Haha. So if he was standing on the far post and the goal keeper was 'thinking' about diving there, would you still give the offside?

The goalkeeper had no chance of diving there due to his current position and his direction of movement. He was wrongfooted.

We obvs have to agree to disagree on this one.
More feedback from the decision-makers would help us all.