Peter Grove
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If that were an attacker doing the same thing to a defender as they cleared the ball, it would be a foul and a yellow card, 99 times out of a hundred.
ARG vs SAU Matchday 3 - Vinčić (SLV)
- Thread starter george.g
- Start date
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
I am confused
Messi’s VAR pen - how can they give the pen if there is a big two handed shove the other way off the ball just before?
The second offside goal - really? - no graphics here.
But great goals!
Messi’s VAR pen - how can they give the pen if there is a big two handed shove the other way off the ball just before?
The second offside goal - really? - no graphics here.
But great goals!
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
The VAR should have reviewed the attacking phase of play (from the time Argentina gained possession). So either the VAR didn't think the push by Argentina was a clear and obvious error, or the VAR screwed up.
I think this is the play you are talking about re OS--I don't have an image from the automated system, but this image is from a twitter post purporting to show that the automated system failed and used the wrong defender:
I am not endorsing the claim--I have no reason to believe that the lines drawn here are more accurate than the fancy system used for automated OS--I'm only sharing because it is a screen shot that is presumably at least close to the proper magic moment.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Oh lord - that would be a giant c*** up!
Did anyone watch live and see the offside animation?
I wonder the Argentine press are saying…
Yeah it was a crazy tight call, maybe an inch offside at the 't-shirt line'
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
OMFG - is that what stops arguably the world’s greatest ever player from a chance of lifting the world cup?
(TBH based on other armpit diagrams I think he should be more off than that and the line drawn from further right… but still… OMFG… great post thanks… that is the ultimate toenail - neck hair VAR offside!)
(TBH based on other armpit diagrams I think he should be more off than that and the line drawn from further right… but still… OMFG… great post thanks… that is the ultimate toenail - neck hair VAR offside!)
Under the armpit offside line rule, I think that probably would have qualified as onside, but as we all now know, the sleeve line is what matters for handball and therefore, also offside.
The line in that graphic is actually set at the defending player's foot, so it's all of the shirt-covered arm being off that has meant this is called - relative to some other decisions, that's actually fairly clear!
The line in that graphic is actually set at the defending player's foot, so it's all of the shirt-covered arm being off that has meant this is called - relative to some other decisions, that's actually fairly clear!
The top of the shoulder is beyond the line in the graphic so we'll above the bottom of the armpit line. Also what that graphic should have is a horizontal line which indicates where line is drawn in respect of the bottom of the armpit which would then square off the offside part of the anatomy
A bit like this (which shows how tight a decision this is:
I've had people moaning in a WhatApps chat I'm part of about the tight offsides ruining the game, and I've said to them what I've said on here before. For years clubs, players, pundits, etc, have bemoaned offside decisions that have gone against them by millimetres, and broadcasters drew lines to "prove" the AR was wrong well before lines were an official thing. Now we have VAR they don't like it, well tough luck as far as I am concerned. If you are offside you are offside, and with the new semi-automated technology you are going to be given offside even if it is just by millimetres.
RefIADad
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So glad we have VAR to clearly identify these objective, "it is or it isn't 100% of the time" offside decisions.
Say what you will about professional soccer in the US, but you'll never convince me that the way offside VAR decisions are handled in MLS and Liga MX (no lines, call on the field stands unless the video clearly shows the call is wrong) is the wrong way to review offside decisions.
Yep, definitely my preference
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Yep my preference too.
My ten year old girl in the car today asked why there is much debate about fouls and goals when there are so many cameras. I explained GLT and VAR. She said “you only don’t like VAR because you are a referee and want to control everything.” ROTFLMAO i went straight out and spent the college fund on a Lambo for the weekend love her squeeze her!
The problem is that it's a guess, and it's a guess that will be easily shown up the very first time a broadcaster does draw lines and "proves" that the AR and then VAR were wrong. I don't buy that this system really offers any improvement over leaving it with the on-field official, and I don't buy that the idea we should just accept a VAR official getting decisions "clearly wrong" would last more than a week in the PL.
socal lurker
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The clearly wrong decisions do get caught by the MLS system. I don’t recall seeing a play that was clearly wrong that didn’t get caught. The close but wrong decisions, not all the time. So the improvement is that there are not the really bad decisions—which in theory was what VAR was about when it started.
I put "clearly wrong" in quotes because that's exactly how it will be phrased by broadcasters as soon as they've drawn their own lines. VAR exists in part because pouring over this kind of controversy is what generates engagement, we can't pretend that won't happen again if a system exists that allows for factual decisions to be made but then chooses not to.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
I agree it would be hard to go back. I don’t think it would have been so hard had it been there from the start. But as I said when it first started, once the genie is out of the bottle, it never goes back. All we can expect is for VAR to expand, as it has in other sports. (I think a likely next up will be Ck vs GK,or fouls in the APP that leads to CKs.)
RefIADad
RefChat Addict
No more of a guess than someone choosing the frame of when a ball is kicked, the right offside point for the attackers, and the right offside point for the defenders.