callmemyref
Well-Known Member
Hi guys, what’s the good mark when you are on the line, and which are very good?
What can step 5 line marks to 5-4 candidates do?
Thank you
What can step 5 line marks to 5-4 candidates do?
Thank you
AR Observation
- Thread starter callmemyref
- Start date
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
The expected standard for AR's at that level produces a 70 to 73 (same as for referees).
As long as observer marks for the AR duties are reasonable, they have no real influence in the decision making process, which is based on the referee's performance in the middle.
The important aspect is to complete the requisite number of AR games.
As long as observer marks for the AR duties are reasonable, they have no real influence in the decision making process, which is based on the referee's performance in the middle.
The important aspect is to complete the requisite number of AR games.
callmemyref
Well-Known Member
What about 74 and 75, is it possible to get? And this marks still won’t affect you?
Correct.
I didn't think you assistant referees were getting observations at step 5 and 6 anymore.
The only thing marks will be considered for are end of season finales.
When you get to level 4 ARs are ranked and if you specialise AR (think it's min 3 years as dual) then you can be considered for promotion as an AR from the ranking. If you're dual then you won't ever be promoted on the line until you are level 3.
callmemyref
Well-Known Member
Not step 6. When the referee on Step 5 game assigned an observer, he observes the three of us
Fair enough. That was not my experience last season.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
Steps 5 and 6 AR's are still observed and marked.
bester
RefChat Addict
Dual L4s can be promoted on the line for 'exceptional performance' but only during there first 3 years as a dual IIRC
Was at least one just promoted on the line this way last summer.
Think this must be regional thing then as certainly games I observed there were no reports going to ARs unless they asked for it.
Wasn't aware of that, it wasn't anything that has appealed to me before so havent paid too much attention to the finer details.
Make sure you know the competencies and demonstrate as many of them as you can at least. For example, get right to the corner flag, use lots of sideways movement, etc. The observer needs timed examples to award you a higher mark so if you don't demonstrate each of the required competencies you will just get a standard expected.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
It used to be "if they asked for it" (a report, that is!) but as now all on MOAS they are done automatically.
ARs aren't in MOAS for step 5 and 6 here. Hence why its not mandatory. Again, which is why I suspect it's a regional matter
callmemyref
Well-Known Member
From this season, we get all the appointments for Step 5 and 6 on MOAS, even ARs in London
Not happening here, which again, highlight sits a regional thing
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
An interesting one. My guess is that the majority of the country has moved them onto MOAS. We may hear to the contrary now(?)Not happening here, which again, highlight sits a regional thing
North West Counties (Step 5 & 6) appoints AR's via MOAS, and we get Observer Reports & Marks when the R is being observed.
Had 6 this season so far, with an average of 72.75 (Highest of 74, lowest 72)
No ranking system though to see where that compares with others
Had 6 this season so far, with an average of 72.75 (Highest of 74, lowest 72)
No ranking system though to see where that compares with others
The 'bee in my bonnet' revolves around my experience of AR scores being predominantly down to luck
If you're observed whilst Assisting and nothing much happens, you're scored as a sh1t AR
If stuff happens and you don't get involved, or excessively interfere, you'll be scored much the same as if nothing happens that you can get involved in. The only way to score well, is to be lucky (have stuff happen) and to respond correctly and proportionately
70 should be the par score which is achieved when nowt happens. Marks should be lost just as easily as they're gained, but this is not the case, I've NEVER had a major Dev Point (and only a couple of minors as i recall) on the line, yet my scores are relatively cr4p because nothing much has happened in my games on which the Ref has been observed
If you're observed whilst Assisting and nothing much happens, you're scored as a sh1t AR
If stuff happens and you don't get involved, or excessively interfere, you'll be scored much the same as if nothing happens that you can get involved in. The only way to score well, is to be lucky (have stuff happen) and to respond correctly and proportionately
70 should be the par score which is achieved when nowt happens. Marks should be lost just as easily as they're gained, but this is not the case, I've NEVER had a major Dev Point (and only a couple of minors as i recall) on the line, yet my scores are relatively cr4p because nothing much has happened in my games on which the Ref has been observed
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
Our system here is completely different from the UK, but this discussion reminds me of my assessment for the AYSO National level, in which I was greeted by the assessor at the end of the game with "I can't pass you because you didn't flag for any fouls." I asked him what fouls he thought I should have flagged, and he agreed there were none. 
(He did eventually actually pass me after our discussion and a question about fouls.)
(He did eventually actually pass me after our discussion and a question about fouls.)Observing ARs is tricky, for a number of reasons. The obvious one is that you spent the majority of the game watching the referee, the AR might have done a magnificent but the observer might not necessarily see it if he is focused on the referee, where he is, and what is potentially about to happen. Another is offsides, typically observers at that level will sit close to the half way line, or perhaps a bit away from central so they are in the half of each AR, but either way they are extremely unlikely to be directly inline with an offside decision. Just as we won't give development advice on an offside decision when the AR is level and we aren't, unless it was very obviously wrong, the same situation applies to a close correct decision, if we can't say it was obviously wrong if we weren't level we can't say it was definitely right. Even at National League, where every close offside is reviewed by video, they still struggle as there is usually only one camera and often they don't have a shot that shows both the ball being played and the player who received it.
This is why I think the biggest weighted section is the one with the competencies that are easier for an AR to demonstrate even in a game where nothing happened. Signals, you will always need to make those. Correctly positioned and able to sprint, that will be required in every game. Square position and sideways movement: again, that will be needed in any game. Body language and other "fluffy" stuff, yep, that's easy to demonstrate. Get an above standard on all of those, which should be achievable and that's 72 even nothing happens in the other two sections.
The AR marks at my level seem largely irrelevant anyway. Half of my games have been Step 3 lines despite being in the 'old band D' for AR marks. Either I get pretty good AR appointments on account of my position in the Referee Merit table or, more likely; the AR appointments are fairly random. I mean... I wouldn't fancy the L4 appointment officer's job, he's probably just focused on Geography and dependable names
Either way, I winnit be getting any Cup Finals with the flag in my hand