RefSix

AR Observation - Harsh?

#43
Observer at contributory level recently gave major developments to both assistants for checking goal kicks from the 18-yard line and for ankle socks being just above ankle line.
 
#44
Observer at contributory level recently gave major developments to both assistants for checking goal kicks from the 18-yard line and for ankle socks being just above ankle line.
GKs from 18 yard line I get. 6 yard line is the clear guideline so no real excuses on that (though agree, to make it major development is picky).

Ankle socks ... bane of my life. They are the new sock tape :(. Trying to enforce this pre game at Supply / Contrib level just gets everything off to a difficult start, no matter how nicely / politely you ask
 
#45
GKs from 18 yard line I get. 6 yard line is the clear guideline so no real excuses on that (though agree, to make it major development is picky).

Ankle socks ... bane of my life. They are the new sock tape :(. Trying to enforce this pre game at Supply / Contrib level just gets everything off to a difficult start, no matter how nicely / politely you ask
Never once been told six yard. Always 18. In some cases just the first couple too.
Question would be I suppose is what did the referee ask for pre match. Most refs cover it so if the ref says check from 18 how does that then become a major dev point for an AR.
And how is it a. Major dev point anyway. Who cares if keeper has the ball and inch or so out of goal area. What real benefit is it giving him and what impact to the game does it have?
I'd much rathermy ARs were in line with 2nd rear most defender than get caught out of position checking GKs from in line with goal area.
Agree totally on the ankle socks. Pain in the back side.
 
#46
And how is it a. Major dev point anyway. Who cares if keeper has the ball and inch or so out of goal area. What real benefit is it giving him and what impact to the game does it have?
I'd much rathermy ARs were in line with 2nd rear most defender than get caught out of position checking GKs from in line with goal area.
Totally agree that making it major is harsh ... but generally, Observers have so little to write about in an AR report that something obvious like this stands out really clearly.

If an AR doesn't have the sprint to get from the 6 yard line to the second last defender in the time it takes for the GK to walk back, run forward and the ball is in the air then that's a bigger issue ..... :)
 

bester

RefChat Addict
#47
After checking the posiiton of the ball you are supposed to move to the 18 yard line and wait until the ball leaves the penalty area before running to the second last defender...
 
#48
After checking the posiiton of the ball you are supposed to move to the 18 yard line and wait until the ball leaves the penalty area before running to the second last defender...
Yeah, but a lot of referees overrule that and ask A/R's to go to the defensive line instead.

From next season that won't be an issue anymore I guess.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#49
I have been on both ends of this general rule that observers follow. You look at a performance in it's totality and have a gut feel for the final mark (for example that looked line a 74, or 7.4 in Aus). You then do the report and the marks for each section and total it. If there is a big gap between the two you adjust the section marks up/down to get it closer to the gut feel mark. Sounds like an unfair process but every assessor I have spoken to follows that process or something similar. This can mean being picky or generous (depending on which way you adjust) on some trivial things you have picked if you have not been good enough to note everything that made the performance the mark you think it was.
 
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one

RefChat Addict
#50
After checking the posiiton of the ball you are supposed to move to the 18 yard line and wait until the ball leaves the penalty area before running to the second last defender...
The laws want the AR to be on three check points in succession.

1. 6 yard line, then
2. 18 yard line, then
3. offside line

Going from check points 2 to 3 with the speed of the ball if the ball is kicked long is impossible. The current laws do not give priority between check points 2 and 3. However until 2016, check point 3 had priority over 2.

"3. Finally, the assistant referee must take a position to check the offside line, which is a priority in any case" 2015/16 pdf pg 89

As @RobOda pointed out, from next year check point at position 2 will no linger be required.
 
#51
The laws want the AR to be on three check points in succession.

1. 6 yard line, then
2. 18 yard line, then
3. offside line

Going from check points 2 to 3 with the speed of the ball if the ball is kicked long is impossible. The current laws do not give priority between check points 2 and 3. However until 2016, check point 3 had priority over 2.

"3. Finally, the assistant referee must take a position to check the offside line, which is a priority in any case" 2015/16 pdf pg 89

As @RobOda pointed out, from next year check point at position 2 will no linger be required.
There is also (currently) no point in stopping at position 2 if all of the players are much further up the field -- the players will have to run about as far as you.
 
#54
Non standard / non LOTG signals for R or AR have been the subject of a few threads here, cutting the grass , upside down screen wiper, palm down motion (calm down)... They all form part of communications / body language that is encouraged. For me they are fine if they satisfy some criteria (these are the ones i can think of of the top of my head)

- There is a purpose benefit behind it
- It does not negatively impact a team or match control
- It is commonly understood for the audience it is used for
Arguably the best of us, Mr Collina, made the point at the world cup, that both players and officials also need to use signs to overcome language barriers.

I think any signal must also be clear. Back to doing one thing at a time. You might just about get away with pointing for a foul while pulling your shirt but I know to my cost it looks very silly if you blow, point and show a high foot all at the same time;)
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#55
Never once been told six yard. Always 18. In some cases just the first couple too.
Question would be I suppose is what did the referee ask for pre match. Most refs cover it so if the ref says check from 18 how does that then become a major dev point for an AR.
And how is it a. Major dev point anyway. Who cares if keeper has the ball and inch or so out of goal area. What real benefit is it giving him and what impact to the game does it have?
I'd much rathermy ARs were in line with 2nd rear most defender than get caught out of position checking GKs from in line with goal area.
Agree totally on the ankle socks. Pain in the back side.
There used to be a document called contrib directives and that clear said GKs must be checked from 6 yards. I haven't ever seen that advice being replaced so I guess it remains valid and in force.
 
#56
I think any signal must also be clear. Back to doing one thing at a time. You might just about get away with pointing for a foul while pulling your shirt but I know to my cost it looks very silly if you blow, point and show a high foot all at the same time;)
A great example of this is the Brych signals in the Nacho (Real Madrid) send off a few weeks back.

Yellow, kick motion, yellow, push motion, red.

Was anyone uncertain that this was 2Y->R and what offence each was for? Hells no.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#57
There used to be a document called contrib directives and that clear said GKs must be checked from 6 yards. I haven't ever seen that advice being replaced so I guess it remains valid and in force.
Like I say never have been asked to, nor have I ever checked from 6 yard line with exception of poor visibility.
Never been marked down on it either.
 

Brian Hamilton

I am the storm
Observer/Tutor
#59
I have been on both ends of this general rule that observers follow. You look at a performance in it's totality and have a gut feel for the final mark (for example that looked line a 74, or 7.4 in Aus). You then do the report and the marks for each section and total it. If there is a big gap between the two you adjust the section marks up/down to get it closer to the gut feel mark. Sounds like an unfair process but every assessor I have spoken to follows that process or something similar. This can mean being picky or generous (depending on which way you adjust) on some trivial things you have picked if you have not been good enough to note everything that made the performance the mark you think it was.
Obvs. not spoken to this Observer. I take my notes. I compare my notes to the competencies,. I complete my comments. If something goes wrong and it negatively impacts on the game, then it will affect the mark. If something goes wrong and it doesn't negatively impact on the game, then it will attract advice but not impact the mark.

I have to put a timed example on every comment positive or developmental.

Having said all that there is a growing groundswell of opinion that the current competencies for ARs at Contrib and Supply are not correctly aligned.
 
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