An oldie: I am the ref

[frank_ref]

I was just watching this (from 2.22)

and thinking, if I'm the ref here I'm like, Ghana just scored there, Uruguay cheated them out of it, it's for a place in the World Cup semi-final, let's see if I can't set things right. Gyan misses: but having had an eye on the edge of the box I put my whistle to my mouth and order a retake. What? You want to tell me there weren't two Uruguayans in the area when the penalty was taken? That's encroachment. Let's have it again and hope he scores the second time. Hell, if he misses that we might just have it again anyway, regardless of defenders in the box. I am the ref. I might never ref another World Cup match but I'll go down in history as the man who valued moral law over his own career and righted a gross wrong.

Moral of the story: in my own games, in similar situations, I do what I can to make sure that ball ends up where it should have been. You have that power. The referee's decision is final.

 

[frank_ref]

In fact, just had a new idea: why not just confab with the lino and agree between the two of you that "the ball definitely crossed the line; that's what we saw". Even if it was a lie, it wouldn't be a worse decision than the Lampard 'goal'. Then walk off smiling while all the Uruguayans go mental.

 

[haywain]

should definitely have been retaken, but research has shown me that elite refs are usually clueless where the lotg governing penalty kicks are concerned

 

[SM]

Win the words of Lennon, They say Karmas going to get you.

Cest la vie

 

[frank_ref]

should definitely have been retaken, but research has shown me that elite refs are usually clueless where the lotg governing penalty kicks are concerned

Likewise where a throw-in's taken from, and how. I guess they figure, what the hell, it's a small battle and generally doesn't make any difference. I can understand that. In a normal case, who cares that two players were two yards inside the box? But in an instance like this I'd be all over 'em.

Still, it's a way of thinking that only comes with hindsight. I had a deliberate handball in a friendly once. The attacking captain didn't want the guy sent off and we all agreed on a yellow. Of course, the penalty was missed. Later I decided what I should have done was get the keeper and the taker together and say, look boys, let's make sure this goes in. The next time it happened was in a league match. It was already something like 7-0. I had the two captains and the offender and the keeper come in and told them, it's either red and a pen or yellow and a goal. The keeper wasn't happy at the time about having to let the pen in but he congratulated me after the match on "some smart refereeing, for once". Seemed sensible to me. Obviously not the kind of thing you can do if you're on the telly. And younger refs may think you shouldn't 'bend the rules' like this and tell players what you want them to do but I've heard similar tales from premier league officials and to me it's all fair game. Especially at my level where guys are playing for exercise and fun - supposedly - and don't need the disappointment of an early bath and a hefty fine in the mail.

 

[haywain]

you is a well dodgy geezer, frank

 

[Justylove]

Likewise where a throw-in's taken from, and how. I guess they figure, what the hell, it's a small battle and generally doesn't make any difference. I can understand that. In a normal case, who cares that two players were two yards inside the box? But in an instance like this I'd be all over 'em.

Still, it's a way of thinking that only comes with hindsight. I had a deliberate handball in a friendly once. The attacking captain didn't want the guy sent off and we all agreed on a yellow. Of course, the penalty was missed. Later I decided what I should have done was get the keeper and the taker together and say, look boys, let's make sure this goes in. The next time it happened was in a league match. It was already something like 7-0. I had the two captains and the offender and the keeper come in and told them, it's either red and a pen or yellow and a goal. The keeper wasn't happy at the time about having to let the pen in but he congratulated me after the match on "some smart refereeing, for once". Seemed sensible to me. Obviously not the kind of thing you can do if you're on the telly. And younger refs may think you shouldn't 'bend the rules' like this and tell players what you want them to do but I've heard similar tales from premier league officials and to me it's all fair game. Especially at my level where guys are playing for exercise and fun - supposedly - and don't need the disappointment of an early bath and a hefty fine in the mail.

That's assuming the penalty taker can actually get the attempt on target and not hoof it over the bar or shank it wide

 

[SM]

Can't help but disagree frank. I see the logic of what you are doing, but if it is a competitive, league sanctioned, match, then the laws of the game are the laws of the game. There is always room for common sense, but what you describe goes too far. Have the balls to make the difficult decisions as Collina once said. You don't get to decide which rules to enforce, some rules allow interpretation others don't. If the player commits an offence which is a red card, off he goes.

How is it fair on other teams in the league if one ref makes it up as he goes along.

That may sound a little combative, it's not meant to, we all have opinions on how to ref.

 

[frank_ref]

Have the balls to make the difficult decisions, as Collina once said. You don't get to decide which rules to enforce, some rules allow interpretation others don't. If the player commits an offence which is a red card, off he goes.

Who knows what Collina would have done when it's 7-0 in a Sixth Division game on a sloping pitch on a wet Sunday morning with twenty minutes left and everybody just wants to go home? I certainly feel good about my decision, and can't imagine anyone convincing me otherwise.

PS If you want to avoid sounding combative maybe avoid phrases like "have the balls".

 

[SM]

There are a lot of young refs on this forum. It is fine for you to say ignore the laws of the game which will make you unpopular. It is far from good refereeing, it is very bad advice for a young ref.

If you are happy with your way of doing it, great good for you. Hopefully you avoid suspension from your county FA. Be careful posting such advice on public forums.

 

[Justylove]

I do agree with you @Supermonkey we shouldn't try and make the laws up as we go along. Having this discussion with the players opens you up to all sorts of potential issues. It's 6-0 in the game this week, what happens when you get the same team down the line and its a close game? Do you do the same or do you apply the laws to the letter because the context of the game is different?

You can sell some marginal red/yellow decisions as a yellow to teams, they might not agree, but ultimately it's your opinion, however telling any player "right that's a red card, however I'm not going to send you off" sends completely the wrong message to everyone involved in the game and sets you up for a fall.

We're there to apply the laws, and when they get broken to make sure that we penalise accordingly, we're not there to instigate "plea bargains"

I'm interested in the scenario about a 'free' penalty and a yellow as opposed to a straight red. What if its the keeper that has committed the offence and you keep him on the pitch, on the understanding that he allows the striker to score, then he changes his mind and saves the penalty? There is no encroachment from any player, what do you do? Order a retake? If so on what grounds? Issue a second yellow card to the keeper and send him off? If so what for, unsporting conduct, how do you write that up in the misconduct report?

I'm maybe being a bit glib here, but all I can see is the potential for it leading to you have to flex the laws even more and digging yourself into a great big hole.

 

[SM]

The other part of this is respect for the game and the teams involved in the divison. A low divison game may mean nothing to the ref, but it will mean something to them players who have played in a divison all season and want promotion or not to be relegated etc. A player not sent off who should have been in one game doesn't get banned as he should, next game scores a hatrick. How is that fair to anyone?

A different referee follows the laws of the game, he does send a man off for the same offence?

It's a mess.

 

[MattyontheWhistle]

Woah!

Ref got the initial decision spot on, ball hadn't crossed the line, Suarez red card for DOGSO-H.

Penalty taken, hits bar and goes over - BUT two Uruguayans encroaching. There should have been a retake, and another until the kick is taken withing the LOTG and carry on.

To suggest we, as referees, should influence the result in such a way is, quite frankly, abhorrent to me.

 

[haywain]

i can't help thinking that one or two people on here haven't quite grasped Frank_ref's posting style

 

[frank_ref]

i can't help thinking that one or two people on here haven't quite grasped Frank_ref's posting style

Heehee. But you have, H.

Anyways, props to y'all for arguing your points so well. Respect. I like where you're coming from. All salient perspectives well stated.