The Ref Stop

An irritation during pitch inspection

HertsFinest

HertsFinest

Next Weeks Ref
This morning I arrived to find a pitch with a thin channel still hard with frozen mud and the rest fine.

I agreed with managers that I'd wait until 15 after proposed KO time to see if it thaws at all.

Cue the usual 15/16 players saying "come on ref this is fine surely, lets play"

And the other 5/6 saying "no way he can play. Ref look at it its awful"

Well one thing really got my back up today.

I was 50/50 right up to decision time. Now the away manager approached me and made comments about insurance. "Who's insurance covers it if you play on this rubbish? Mine or yours?"

"What insurance do you have? Is it the FA. I want to know insurance details before we play"

Now it is this that swung me to postpone. I was extremely unhappy at being spoken to about this in the manner it was and I took it as a threat. Clearly had I kicked off the game and someone injured themselves this Muppet would have had something to say.

I was a liTtle surprised to say the least. Very strange
 
The Ref Stop
Knob. Him not you Herts :p

There's no need for a threat like that. Don't forget though it does explicitly say in the LOTG that the referee can't be held responsible for any injury or loss caused by his decisions including whether or not the FOP is fit to play.

What a tool he is.
 
Yeah it wasnt said in a nasty or aggressive way but almost in such a nice tone that it was quite patronising and belittling. Had I not been "referee" I think I would have called him up on it and got into a bit of a row! Quite pathetic really and in the end caused 21 other people to go home without a game of football. I may well have called it off anyway but this just made my decision for me.

Debating whether to inform the league or not as it made me exceptionally uneasy.
 
HertsFinest said:
Yeah it wasnt said in a nasty or aggressive way but almost in such a nice tone that it was quite patronising and belittling. Had I not been "referee" I think I would have called him up on it and got into a bit of a row! Quite pathetic really and in the end caused 21 other people to go home without a game of football. I may well have called it off anyway but this just made my decision for me.

Debating whether to inform the league or not as it made me exceptionally uneasy.
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Given what you've just written, I'd let it go and just show him the relevant passage in the lotg next time
 
Few things here... i know that the lotg say, but they do not supercede the criminal or civil laws of the land. You (and all the players) have a duty of care to the participants, and if someone gets injured because of a decision you've made then you could well be liable (your household insurance may have legal liability cover).

The guy sounds like a total knobend, and it's unnecessarily passive aggressive, but... he's not wrong here, and it's a valid question.

If a pitch is even remotely frozen and there's any part of it, even just a few square metres, that won't take a stud then don't play.
If there's anyone who doesn't want to play and the pitch isn't obviously fine then don't play.

I've broken my ankle by sliding on a frozen pitch; it's much more likely than you think and you will be 100% in the firing line.
 
@RefSheff it was one of them where it "sort of" took a stud. Hard to explain but you would know it if you saw it. Also took a key, just about. As I said was marginal.

And its senior football. He can try for all he is worth to claim some sort of "claim" against a ref for saying the pitch is safe to play, ultimately its going to be impossible to say the ref is at fault, aswell as that the pitch was indeed not safe to play on and even more impossible to convince a court of law that he was unable to make his own decision as to whether he felt safe to play or not.

As you quite rightly said, just a knobend. No real threat to me, just found it a very real threat and couldnt be bothered with the hassle. Also each CFA has public liability insurance for all football matches that take place within the counties stipulations.
 
What I'd then said to him was go away please let me make my decision by myself so you did not feel the pressure what was it like after the 15 mins after kick off time
 
ref craig said:
What I'd then said to him was go away please let me make my decision by myself so you did not feel the pressure what was it like after the 15 mins after kick off time
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I did let him know he can still walk into a misconduct report if he doesn't let me get on with my duties.

15 mins after it was close but no cigar and because we were all in a pay and display car park and it was a cup game it wouldn't have been feasible to wait any longer

Been rescheduled now for couple weeks time at a school so hopefully pitch is better looked after!
 
my understanding is that your registration with your county fa gives you liability cover in case anyone chooses to sue you.
I had similar situation a few years ago. pitch was crunchy but not rock hard. home team had tried to call game off day before saying pitch was frozen. away team complained to league as it was cup semi final and thought hidden agenda at play. league told me to inspect pitch on morning of game and make my own decision. I did delay from 10.30 to 11.00 and was happy safe at this stage. Home team manager asked me who he should sue if player got injured. I just told him me and continued to start the game.
 
RegalRef said:
Knob. Him not you Herts :p

There's no need for a threat like that. Don't forget though it does explicitly say in the LOTG that the referee can't be held responsible for any injury or loss caused by his decisions including whether or not the FOP is fit to play.

What a tool he is.
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Quite right in all that, but has this ever actually been tested in law - not sure it has.
 
HertsFinest said:
No player would have a hope in hell in a court room. It would be thrown out quicker than you can say "well have that foul ref"
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I was thinking of a totally hypothetical situation where referee WAS at fault, would LOTG protect you in law?

Say for example, goal post you inspected 5 minutes previously collapsed and injured someone?
 
PinnerPaul said:
I was thinking of a totally hypothetical situation where referee WAS at fault, would LOTG protect you in law?

Say for example, goal post you inspected 5 minutes previously collapsed and injured someone?
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I understand what you mean Paul, but ultimately when a player signs his registration forms he signs a contract that says he agrees to play to the LOTG, one of those protects the referees liability.

In the case of the crossbar, the onus would be on the claimant to prove it was defective at the time of the check. This sounds obvious but it is incredibly difficult to prove the timeline of a defect.

I work in the motor trade and occasionally deal with MOT appeals against other garages. Sometimes a claimant makes a claim the other garage missed something on an MOT, but the onus is on the claimant to support this with proof the defect was present at the time of test.Its ni-on impossible.

This brings me to the point that MOT is not worth the paper it's written on, but that's another story...
 
RegalRef said:
I understand what you mean Paul, but ultimately when a player signs his registration forms he signs a contract that says he agrees to play to the LOTG, one of those protects the referees liability.

In the case of the crossbar, the onus would be on the claimant to prove it was defective at the time of the check. This sounds obvious but it is incredibly difficult to prove the timeline of a defect.

I work in the motor trade and occasionally deal with MOT appeals against other garages. Sometimes a claimant makes a claim the other garage missed something on an MOT, but the onus is on the claimant to support this with proof the defect was present at the time of test.Its ni-on impossible.

This brings me to the point that MOT is not worth the paper it's written on, but that's another story...
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My son is a mechanic, so certainly agree with that last sentence!:)
 
PinnerPaul said:
I was thinking of a totally hypothetical situation where referee WAS at fault, would LOTG protect you in law?

Say for example, goal post you inspected 5 minutes previously collapsed and injured someone?
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As regal says, ultimately its "prove it"

The claim would be against the owner of the ground that the goalpost is situated on NOT the referee. It would be a case of proving that it was not properly maintained or inspected, NOT that the ref hadn't checked it properly.
 
I'm not sure you are all getting my point, or more likely, i'm not explaining it very well!

RefSheff sums it up well - as he says. IF a referee WERE negligent, would the LOTG "disclaimer" stand up to the law of the land, my point is that has not been tested to my knowledge.
 
PinnerPaul said:
I'm not sure you are all getting my point, or more likely, i'm not explaining it very well!

RefSheff sums it up well - as he says. IF a referee WERE negligent, would the LOTG "disclaimer" stand up to the law of the land, my point is that has not been tested to my knowledge.
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I understand but I think the laws of the land mean the LOTG don't mean anything. Its the fact its not the referees responsibility. Its the people who maintain the pitch. And in the event of a hard pitch the players choose to play. The ref can't be held responsible.
 
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