Aldi value VAR

[Anubis]

Bbc site reports talks to intoduce a los budget reduced VAR package to EFL)and WSL, involving 1-3 cameras with no offside lines
Better than nothing?
or, if going to do it,do it properly?

Not sure how a system designed to correct faults or, factually prove on-off side can be half hearted, on the flip side, it might be better than nothing plus provide a kindergarden for progressive referees before tackling the full shebang.

 

[James P]

Surely they're gonna need a sh*tload of referees and ARs if they have VAR for each game in the EFL (I assume you mean EFL not EPL). 3 referees per game (middle, 4O, VAR) and 3 liners per game (2AR, AVAR). Where is the manpower coming from? Is it feasible that they could have VAR officials watching over a number of games? Will the clubs want more expenses when half of them are already skint?
Edit: AVAR probably wouldn't be needed if no offsides being overturned

 

[Big Cat]

Bbc site reports talks to intoduce a los budget reduced VAR package to EPL and WSL, involving 1-3 cameras with no offside lines
Better than nothing?
or, if going to do it,do it properly?

Not sure how a system designed to correct faults or, factually prove on-off side can be half hearted, on the flip side, it might be better than nothing plus provide a kindergarden for progressive referees before tackling the full shebang.

Fantastic, that's the enjoyable football shafted too
Are 'they' stupid or something? Haven't 'they been watching the EPL? Yes offsides are accurate at the expense of enjoyment, but the subjective stuff really hasn't improved a jot. In may respects (Like Refs leaving KMD's to VAR and then VAR doing nothing due to C&O cr4p), KMD's are worse now than ever

Slightly off-topic, but when will IFAB realize that two versions of the rules are needed. One for forensics and one for the art or skill of Refereeing?
The two are simply not mutually compatible with the one gobbledegook pamphlet IFAB churn out at the moment

Why don't they canvas the spectators to get their opinion?
My future in the game is laid out. Refereeing or Observing at grass roots, or supporting a club at a community level at which this stuff can't spoil the game. I guess that's something. It would be great to see many other folk doing the same thing. That would be one way the game could benefit from the way things are going

 

[Anubis]

Surely they're gonna need a sh*tload of referees and ARs if they have VAR for each game in the EFL (I assume you mean EFL not EPL). 3 referees per game (middle, 4O, VAR) and 3 liners per game (2AR, AVAR). Where is the manpower coming from? Is it feasible that they could have VAR officials watching over a number of games? Will the clubs want more expenses when half of them are already skint?
Edit: AVAR probably wouldn't be needed if no offsides being overturned

Well spotted, yes. EFL

 

[Anubis]

Surely they're gonna need a sh*tload of referees and ARs if they have VAR for each game in the EFL (I assume you mean EFL not EPL). 3 referees per game (middle, 4O, VAR) and 3 liners per game (2AR, AVAR). Where is the manpower coming from? Is it feasible that they could have VAR officials watching over a number of games? Will the clubs want more expenses when half of them are already skint?
Edit: AVAR probably wouldn't be needed if no offsides being overturned

Specialist vars, ex retired refs, thro age or injury? Train ex players in var specialist or fast track?
the scary answer could be one or two var looking at numerous games and them being held in a queue pending review, ( amazingly opening the door for commercial breaks in tv?)
Not being sexist but maybe there be a interest in females taking up var posts?

do we need top flight referee experience to be a var official?

def so many questions.

 

[Max2]

I’m joining to join @Big Cat in solidarity by never becoming a select group referee either

 

[RustyRef]

Fantastic, that's the enjoyable football shafted too
Are 'they' stupid or something? Haven't 'they been watching the EPL? Yes offsides are accurate at the expense of enjoyment, but the subjective stuff really hasn't improved a jot. In may respects (Like Refs leaving KMD's to VAR and then VAR doing nothing due to C&O cr4p), KMD's are worse now than ever

Slightly off-topic, but when will IFAB realize that two versions of the rules are needed. One for forensics and one for the art or skill of Refereeing?
The two are simply not mutually compatible with the one gobbledegook pamphlet IFAB churn out at the moment

Why don't they canvas the spectators to get their opinion?
My future in the game is laid out. Refereeing or Observing at grass roots, or supporting a club at a community level at which this stuff can't spoil the game. I guess that's something. It would be great to see many other folk doing the same thing. That would be one way the game could benefit from the way things are going

I don't agree. VAR when it is done properly enhances the game. It might be a tight offside, but it is still offside, and for years we had people bemoaning assistants for getting offsides wrong by millimetres. Same for incorrect penalty decisions, officials have been berated for getting them wrong but now there is technology to correct very obvious mistakes the same people that were berating don't like it. And when I say "done properly" I still think England are some way off of being there, but other countries seem to have got it right, and how it was used in the Euros was pretty much spot on.

Of course we don't know how VAR will work and indeed whether it will even get beyond trials.

 

[Big Cat]

I don't agree. VAR when it is done properly enhances the game. It might be a tight offside, but it is still offside, and for years we had people bemoaning assistants for getting offsides wrong by millimetres. Same for incorrect penalty decisions, officials have been berated for getting them wrong but now there is technology to correct very obvious mistakes the same people that were berating don't like it. And when I say "done properly" I still think England are some way off of being there, but other countries seem to have got it right, and how it was used in the Euros was pretty much spot on.

Of course we don't know how VAR will work and indeed whether it will even get beyond trials.

We're diametrically opposed then given your response

Like I say, why don't they canvass the spectators? I don't know anyone on a personal level whose still in favour of VAR
No point in us debating the subject as we're clearly on different planets given your reply. Discussion is more interesting & worthwhile when there's some chance of overlapping opinions. Increasingly, it seems to me, that our 'values' are very different from one anothers

 

[GraemeS]

We're diametrically opposed then given your response

Like I say, why don't they canvass the spectators? I don't know anyone on a personal level whose still in favour of VAR
No point in us debating the subject as we're clearly on different planets given your reply. Discussion is more interesting & worthwhile when there's some chance of overlapping opinions. Increasingly, it seems to me, that our 'values' are very different from one anothers

Rusty makes exactly the correct point - when spectators are canvassed after big international competitions, feedback is generally far more positive. I would put that down to a combination of VAR being properly resourced and more people getting the decent-ish experience of watching from home vs in the ground.

So many of VAR's problem come from the PL system being under-resourced and poorly supported - I'm still broadly in favour of VAR, but I'd rather see none of it that the watered-down version this is proposing.

 

[RustyRef]

We're diametrically opposed then given your response

Like I say, why don't they canvass the spectators? I don't know anyone on a personal level whose still in favour of VAR
No point in us debating the subject as we're clearly on different planets given your reply. Discussion is more interesting & worthwhile when there's some chance of overlapping opinions. Increasingly, it seems to me, that our 'values' are very different from one anothers

Spectators are generally only interested in their own team, if you canvas them their response will inevitably be based on their team's recent experience of VAR / perceived bad decisions.

 

[Big Cat]

Rusty makes exactly the correct point - when spectators are canvassed after big international competitions, feedback is generally far more positive. I would put that down to a combination of VAR being properly resourced and more people getting the decent-ish experience of watching from home vs in the ground.

So many of VAR's problem come from the PL system being under-resourced and poorly supported - I'm still broadly in favour of VAR, but I'd rather see none of it that the watered-down version this is proposing.

I'm broadly in favour of it. But they've mis-sold it and have totally screwed it up. Yes arguably tolerable at times in Internationals, but mostly just propaganda to ensure the money men get their want. Why any Ref would support a system that's made a mockery of our community is beyond me. We should aim for anonymity, not to want centre stage

Anyway, why I bother... I don't really know. Its hard to let go of a game which I once loved. Non League has come to the rescue though. I just wish they had made a success of technology. My hope that they'll sort it, has faded completely

 

[RustyRef]

Right on cue VAR was perfect in tonight's game. Spurs score a goal that was offside even to the naked eye, VAR quickly corrects it. Not the AR's fault as the player stood offside was right in front of him and they are the hardest ones to judge. Then Man City given a penalty for a very clear handling offence, without VAR that would have been two obvious incorrect game changing decisions not being corrected.

 

[QuaverRef]

I almost feel like ‘VAR light’ in the EFL might be a better option than actual VAR. less cameras means less angles and forensic analysis into the tiny details. Could this in turn produce more accurate results in line with ‘clear and obvious’ as it’ll give a more realistic representation of what the referee is expected to see?

 

[PinnerPaul]

I don't agree. VAR when it is done properly enhances the game. It might be a tight offside, but it is still offside, and for years we had people bemoaning assistants for getting offsides wrong by millimetres. Same for incorrect penalty decisions, officials have been berated for getting them wrong but now there is technology to correct very obvious mistakes the same people that were berating don't like it. And when I say "done properly" I still think England are some way off of being there, but other countries seem to have got it right, and how it was used in the Euros was pretty much spot on.

Of course we don't know how VAR will work and indeed whether it will even get beyond trials.

"Tight offside, is still offside" BUT you've missed ...."within the confines of the technonolgy" - however you dress it up, the precise moment a team mate "first" plays the ball for an offside team mate is still subject to the whim of when the replay operator freezes the action. You could go backwards or forwards and it would still look like the player is playing the ball - this obviously impacts exactly where the offside player is.

I'm with BigCat, I'm still in the the disadvantages outweigh the advantages camp and I'm no where near the 'enhance the game" camp - in fact I'm not even in the same country with that one!

Its amusing (to me) that the early(ish) problems were all going to solved when the technology 'improved' and/or the officials 'got used to it' , now we've clearly moved beyond early days and the technology isn't going anywhere, we've moved to "If only we can do it like they do in x, y or z"

 

[Tealeaf]

If it comes in it will mean a greater demand for resources. Which in turn means that if it increases my chances of calling myself an EFL official I’m all in favour!

No more parks football on a Saturday afternoon thank you very much!

I jest… or do I?

 

[Big Cat]

Your dismissive response with regards to spectators

If it comes in it will mean a greater demand for resources. Which in turn means that if it increases my chances of calling myself an EFL official I’m all in favour!

No more parks football on a Saturday afternoon thank you very much!

I jest… or do I?

Seriously though, elite Referees are gonna be massively in favour because VAR extends their careers indefinitely, even if it translates to an 'office job'
Again, VAR for reasons, other than what's best for the game itself