Advantage

[Therealcjhill]

Roughly how long do you all give for an advantage call before calling it back.
If you give advantage and the player then messes up play (lose pass, miss control) do you call it back or deem it that the player has messed up advantage.

 

[JamesL]

Roughly how long do you all give for an advantage call before calling it back.
If you give advantage and the player then messes up play (lose pass, miss control) do you call it back or deem it that the player has messed up advantage.

A few seconds as per Lotg.

2nd question is debatable. Lots to consider. Did the player mess up as a result of the foul you were playing advantage on, for example still off balance, or were they fully in control?

Was it a true advantage or were waiting and seeing.

No one size fits all answer am afraid

 

[one]

I don't call it back one I give (call, signal) advantage. I give a few seconds, usually wait up to 3 but no more than 5 before I decided if advantage has 'ensued'. But as soon as advantage has ensued even if it is half a second after the foul, I decide and signal advantage. If after 'a few' seconds no advantage has ensued (this includes if they mess up) I call the foul.

Having said that, this process is taught differently in England.

 

[RustyRef]

I don't call it back one I give (call, signal) advantage. I give a few seconds, usually wait up to 3 but no more than 5 before I decided if advantage has 'ensued'. But as soon as advantage has ensued even if it is half a second after the foul, I decide and signal advantage. If after 'a few' seconds no advantage has ensued (this includes if they mess up) I call the foul.

Having said that, this process is taught differently in England.

It is also different at different levels in England, just to add to the confusion. At grass roots many observers will expect you to signal straight away then call it back if necessary, once you get to level 3 they don't want you to do that, and rather only signal after it has accrued.

 

[Therealcjhill]

So a foul happens, you allow play to continue and player passes to a team mate who happens to be offside. Do you call back or give offside.. can this be deemed an advantage over the Initial FK or did player mess up. How did he know if team mate was offside (angle, view obstructed etc, lots of reasons he wouldn’t know)

 

[socal lurker]

So a foul happens, you allow play to continue and player passes to a team mate who happens to be offside. Do you call back or give offside.. can this be deemed an advantage over the Initial FK or did player mess up. How did he know if team mate was offside (angle, view obstructed etc, lots of reasons he wouldn’t know)

It depends. Why did you give advantage? If it was because he had that pass, well, that advantage was never there, so bring it back. If it was because the guy with the ball had an unimpressed run at the goal and made the poor choice to pass it to an OSP teammate, then he squandered the advantage and we don’t bring it back. The underlying question is whether the advantage was really there—we don’t go back to make up for player mistakes.

 

[Therealcjhill]

It depends. Why did you give advantage? If it was because he had that pass, well, that advantage was never there, so bring it back. If it was because the guy with the ball had an unimpressed run at the goal and made the poor choice to pass it to an OSP teammate, then he squandered the advantage and we don’t bring it back. The underlying question is whether the advantage was really there—we don’t go back to make up for player mistakes.

Foul tackle made, ball pops out to team mate, he controls and makes pass.. team mate happens to be offside.

 

[CA1992]

So a foul happens, you allow play to continue and player passes to a team mate who happens to be offside. Do you call back or give offside.. can this be deemed an advantage over the Initial FK or did player mess up. How did he know if team mate was offside (angle, view obstructed etc, lots of reasons he wouldn’t know)

Offside

Easiest way to go about it (in my opinion) is to try and think think is your advantage better or equivalent to giving the free kick? In this scenario, the game is more open, ball has been played and receiving player is unfortunately offside - the team have benefited from your advantage, if the player is onside then a chance occurs. You could have given a free kick and a player be offside from the resulting ball forwards - they can't have it both ways (and the other team would go mental at you for pulling it back after letting them go)

In the most instance it will be fairly obvious when to play advantage, when not to, and when to wait and see if one transpires before pulling it back.

 

[one]

It depends. Why did you give advantage? If it was because he had that pass, well, that advantage was never there, so bring it back. If it was because the guy with the ball had an unimpressed run at the goal and made the poor choice to pass it to an OSP teammate, then he squandered the advantage and we don’t bring it back. The underlying question is whether the advantage was really there—we don’t go back to make up for player mistakes.

To add to this, if the advantage was not there *yet* and we had two seconds after the foul and you are still waiting to see if advantage comes, then I will call this back.

If one second after the foul he has a chance of making the same pass at which time his teammate is not offside yet, then I am calling the advantage there and then (by signal or even in my head), then there is no coming back from there.

 

[RustyRef]

The biggest problem I see with grass roots referees, especially those fairly new, and even more especially when they played or at still playing, isn't related to the timing of advantages and pulling it back if necessary, rather it is what constitutes an advantage. Michael Oliver and co might get away with playing advantages in the defensive third, but that isn't appropriate at grass roots levels. Think of advantage as traffic lights ...

Defensive 3rd: RED, don't play advantage unless the fouled player literally has an entire empty pitch to run into.
Middle 3rd: AMBER, only play advantage if the fouled player is facing towards goal and has clear empty space to move into
Attacking 3rd: GREEN, safe to play advantage but still look at factors like is he surrounded by defenders, would a free kick be a better advantage, how wide is he, etc.

Remember that you have to look at more than possession for advantage, position is equally important. I observed an L7 last season and he played 17 advantages, all signaled well with voice and arms. The problem was that only one of them was what I would call a real advantage, the rest were just the fouled player keeping possession of the ball.

 

[socal lurker]

The problem was that only one of them was what I would call a real advantage, the rest were just the fouled player keeping possession of the ball.

I think a problem is that in the top leagues we often see advantage played for not much more than possession. At that level, it may be true that it is advantageous to keep playing. But I think you are right that many, many refs at lower levels lose the concept: Advantage applies if not calling the foul is better for the fouled team than the FK would be. While I agree for the most part with the traffic light* concept @RustyRef sets out, Rs also have to consider that a FK in the attacking third is more beneficial than one at the halfway line. So there needs to be more opportunity for the team (not the player, but the team) to play advantage in the attacking third than at the halfway line.

__________
*Often the PA is included as red in the sense that it takes a very, very good opportunity to be better than a PK.

 

[davlon]

It's surprising how many players think they are Diego Maradona and get frustrated when you blow the whistle, rather than play advantage, as they are running out of their own penalty area.

 

[JamesL]

It's surprising how many players think they are Diego Maradona and get frustrated when you blow the whistle, rather than play advantage, as they are running out of their own penalty area.

I think I have told this story before but...
Once, in a friendly, a defender moaned at me for not playing advantage for his possession on the edge of the box.
Later in that game, in a very similar situation, I let him have said "advantage".
He gave the ball away and his team conceded a goal.
So I told him, "and that's why we don't normally play advantage in those areas!!"

 

[gman1978]

It's surprising how many players think they are Diego Maradona and get frustrated when you blow the whistle, rather than play advantage, as they are running out of their own penalty area.

i had one where a player was on the halfway line going the wrong way with 3 players pressing him hard and he complained when i gave the foul. I replied, "you got 3 players on you and you're going the wrong way player" his response to that was "have you not seen how good i am?" that response is just crying out to be hit, so i replied "yes player, that's why i gave the free kick"

 

[lincs22]

The test is "Does the advantage provide an enhanced attacking opportunity?"

As @RustyRef says, too much advantage is signalled at grassroots football and it is only procession. Part of the problem is that the FA CORE and other teaching encourages too much advantage to be applied. Advantage is an option to the referee, not a mandatory requirement of the LOTG.