I ref young youth football and you get a high number of foul throws. If they are blatant, I'll blow up straight away. However often throw-ins will go to the opposite team and sometimes give them a great advantage. So my question is, is there such thing as playing advantage from a foul throw say if it was a terrible throw and happened to put the opponents in a goal-scoring opportunity or should I still be awarding a throw-in for the opposition.
Advantage from A throw-in.
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boulderdomb
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Great question and it's got my brain working. In my opinion, as it explicitly states in LOTG: "If the throw-in is not taken correctly it is retaken by the opposing team." I don't believe an advantage could be played.
Someone more experienced than me can confirm.
Someone more experienced than me can confirm.
I referee youth football (U13's) and if I see a foul throw, i blow and explain that its a foul throw (eg lifting a leg, jumping when throwing). I then give them another chance explaining that the feet have to stay on the floor. If they foul throw again, I blow again, explain what they have done wrong and tell them its their last chance, if its a foul again - it will go to the other team. Most managers and parents accept this and support you.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
That's admirable, but as has been discussed already, its not correct. You are causing problems for me next week when I do it correctly, because, all I will get is "last weeks ref never did that".
There is no allowance for retaking foul throws based on age in the LOTG.
It might appear common sense and make you out to be a nice friendly ref, however, its not what the LOTG dictate, and then we wonder why folk moan about consistency, well this is why ! Because referees simply go around making up their own rules !
Surely the best way is to allow the "foul throw", and make it clear to the player on his next throw that "keep your feet on the floor this time please" or whatever phrase is apt. Even then, you are not duty bound to penalise this one, but as you rightly say, most folk will support your third one.
Just stick to the LOTG, that's why you wear the badge and that's why a league appoint you.. It makes it so much easier for any referee who does follow the LOTG.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
The LOTG don't allow for a retake from a foul throw so ( if we are going to be Mr Nice Guy because its kids) then surely turn a blind eye to the first dodgy throw and do your education bit before he takes his 2nd ?
Something like " see your last throw, your feet were possibly not on the ground, try keep them there this time please ?" , that way, if you feel the need to justify playing on from the first foul throw, you can
I know and understand the theory of referee helping a U13 through the game but in reality, that's the role of the coach. Why stop at throws? Do we give them another go at a 30 yard free kick at goal if he only makes it as far as the wall ? Why is there this unwritten idea that its ok to retake a foul throw because they are just learning, but not a penalty kick which he weakly passes into the goalies arms?
Do we retake a easy shot to save if it goes through the keepers legs? Hopefully not, so why this obsession with the throws !!
Something like " see your last throw, your feet were possibly not on the ground, try keep them there this time please ?" , that way, if you feel the need to justify playing on from the first foul throw, you can
I know and understand the theory of referee helping a U13 through the game but in reality, that's the role of the coach. Why stop at throws? Do we give them another go at a 30 yard free kick at goal if he only makes it as far as the wall ? Why is there this unwritten idea that its ok to retake a foul throw because they are just learning, but not a penalty kick which he weakly passes into the goalies arms?
Do we retake a easy shot to save if it goes through the keepers legs? Hopefully not, so why this obsession with the throws !!
LoTG would tell you no, no advantage whatsoever and regardless of the beneficiary.
Now in your case youth football, what age groups are we talking about? Anything U-12 I would be aiding their development and teach them about the laws. So I would actually have them do a re-take obviously to a limit, which I would have agreed to with both coaches before hand.
Now in your case youth football, what age groups are we talking about? Anything U-12 I would be aiding their development and teach them about the laws. So I would actually have them do a re-take obviously to a limit, which I would have agreed to with both coaches before hand.
Chrisp72
Always smiling
Chrisp72
Always smiling
100% agree
Hi Ciley,
many thanks for your input and advice, which i take on board.
For most kids at this age, it is the first time they have had a match referee, prior to this it was probably an assistant coach or parent that probably played the game to their own set of rules. By trying to educate the kids as the game progresses, (shouting out about keeping arms down at corners, no pushing, pulling etc) I think it helps their development because most coaches don't explain the laws of the game - they expect the kids to know them from watching on tv or playing FIFA. I don't have a problem with playing on from a throw in and shouting out to keep their feet down etc, its just that generally, their team has gained an advantage from the foul throw. I know that I can blow up and give the opposing team the throw in, but then your caught in the circle of them (the opposing team) foul throwing, blow up, give back to the first team, foul throw, blow up, give back to the opposing team etc etc. After the first couple of foul throws and retakes, its surprising how many are then taken correctly for the rest of the game, so by nipping it in the bud early on in the game, saves alot of hassle later in the game.
If you are unlucky enough to get a team the following week that says "last weeks ref never did that", surely your reply is along the lines of " you should have learnt from last week then".
Going on from throw ins to free kicks - its also surprising how many kids don't know the difference from an IDFK and a DFK. I find that i'm constantly educating them on that too - but i don't give them a second chance if they muck that up
I will take your comments on board as I said above, and look to alter my approach to this issue, and i've got to add that if they were under 14 or older, I aren't as lenient. In those cases they play to TLOTG.
Are you playing 'The Grinch' again this Christmas Miley?
Peter Grove
RefChat Addict
Just to reitetate - no, you can't play advantage on an improperly-taken throw-in. The ball was never in play, so advantage is not an option.
Also, if you believe in the principle that the old Laws of the Game Q&A's still have validity where they have not been superseded by a subsequent law change or published ruling, back in 2006 they had the following:
Also, if you believe in the principle that the old Laws of the Game Q&A's still have validity where they have not been superseded by a subsequent law change or published ruling, back in 2006 they had the following:
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Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Am all for educating as we go along.
I just don't think we would go "hey you were 10 yards offside but because you are 13 and just learning I will give the goal "
"oh dear that was not a good penalty, not enough power, here, have another go"
"good punch, right in the face !! now if you were 19 I would sent u off for that "
for me, u12s, 7 a side, yes, retake is fine......but when you get to 11 a side, no, no retake, me, and again, only for me, ignore the foul throw if need be and educate either when its taken, or in passing, or before the next throw.
Kids at that age already get confused enough when the coach tells them to keep moving up the park, or "take it in line with the ref", when indeed, hopefully, you as ref are (situation dependant of course), 6/8/110 yards ahead in the drop zone.
I just don't think we would go "hey you were 10 yards offside but because you are 13 and just learning I will give the goal "
"oh dear that was not a good penalty, not enough power, here, have another go"
"good punch, right in the face !! now if you were 19 I would sent u off for that "
for me, u12s, 7 a side, yes, retake is fine......but when you get to 11 a side, no, no retake, me, and again, only for me, ignore the foul throw if need be and educate either when its taken, or in passing, or before the next throw.
Kids at that age already get confused enough when the coach tells them to keep moving up the park, or "take it in line with the ref", when indeed, hopefully, you as ref are (situation dependant of course), 6/8/110 yards ahead in the drop zone.
All good points Miley, and as I said above, at U14 level and above (11 a side) I don't give allowances, but at U13 (9 a side) or below, I try to educate them. I have had kids (at U13 level) that have retaken throw ins, then a few minutes later, taken another foul throw and i've given it to the opposing team, and i've explained why i've done that, and again, there's been no arguments. In some games i've also got both managers together at half time and told them that in the second half, any foul throw will be penalised by giving it to the opposing team. I've then seen the managers and coaches showing the boys how to take a throw in, before having the team talk. I just think that managers think that throw ins are not an important part of the game until they realise they can't get away with it.
I've also had the case above that you mention ( "take it in line with the ref",) and i've picked the ball up, taken it where the offence happened and told the player that i'm in charge on the pitch, not his manager !
Whilst we're both doing it wrong, we're both trying to educate them in different ways. Maybe one way is more harsh or softer than the other.
I've also had the case above that you mention ( "take it in line with the ref",) and i've picked the ball up, taken it where the offence happened and told the player that i'm in charge on the pitch, not his manager !
Whilst we're both doing it wrong, we're both trying to educate them in different ways. Maybe one way is more harsh or softer than the other.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
In Scotland we play 11 a side at U13 , anything below that is 7s, even the girls 7s u13 has throw ins and no, nobody would ever pull up a foul throw, that said, for development, maybe someone should.
I can see the day when all throws at all level become kick in's anyway, well, if am around long enough to see it !!
I can see the day when all throws at all level become kick in's anyway, well, if am around long enough to see it !!
Peter Grove
RefChat Addict
I would doubt it. They already tried that as an experiment at a FIFA U-17 World Cup several years ago. It was a dismal failure so I'd be surprised if it were to be tried again.
Kes
I'll Decide ...
In reality, it's only a foul throw if you blow your whistle and penalise it as such. Whilst not technically correct, you could just allow play to continue after the "foul throw" and if the opposite team have gained an advantage from it then they're not going to appeal or complain about it. You just can't yell "play on - advantage". ....
Wow! U13's a retake?
Agree about education, especially when clubs don't take the time to coach a proper legal throw! (But that's another debate) .
Once the team goes 9-aside thy learn the heard way.
My stepped approach varies: I'll always inform captain and managers on throw in expectation. At lower age group - you can see if they are grasping the concept..depending on the obvious skillset of the players... some teams have just been assembled and their game should be encouraged. Others are at academy level and the stepped approach comes in to play.
5- aside educate all the way...
7- aside educate and one chance.
9- aside "you should have listened to me all those years ago!"
Anyway... just my thoughts and it's always done me right.
This is such an old post, no one will probably repond I guess....but here goes. I have had this asked before to me by a player years ago and then again this last week. I told them there is no advantage on an improperly thrown in ball. I think I was told that years ago or I read it then. I got to thinking about it and I think I can understand why you cannot play advantage. First, when we play advantage on the field during play for say, a trip (a direct kick foul), it is just that....a foul. To me an incorrect throw-in is not a foul...it's improper procedure. To go along another a similiar line, a player once asked me if the red team kick the ball barely pass the touchline and a blue team player got the ball with his feet right when it went out, could you play advantage with that and let the blue player continue with the ball. Like the improper throw-in there is no foul there, but the procedure or proper play of the game "only playing the ball within the field" has been violated. Second, if you allow play to continue from an improper throw-in by playing some kind of advantage...what will that person throwing the ball in say the next time he throws it in improperly in the exact same way and this time you call it (because there was "no advantage"). That would not be a good scenario. I can think of some other scenarios, but I think the definitive answer was the person who mentioned in the 2006 guide or fifa advice to refs actually stated "no, advantage cannot be applied on an improper throw-in". To me that says, this has been thought out where such an advantage was applied and the spirit of the game was not achieved.
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