RefSix

AC Milan v Juventus handball

es1

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
i hate that this is handball, nothing like intentional

his arm is outstretched but i'd say it's still a natural position / silhouette. it's also from close range and hit hard
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
More tail wagging the dog nonsense. This is the direction in which the law is heading so these HB's will likely make it into law soon
 

Nij

Well-Known Member
He knows a shot attempt is coming through if he doesn't get that header - it's Ronaldo for freckles' sake. So once he does miss, he lets the goalside arm flail way more than is natural. It's totally unnecessary and unrelated to his previous body movement.

Easy PK and caution, don't mind whether it's called under deliberate or under accidental-unnatural.

Maybe at social grade you let this go, maybe at local level you have a word for them to be very careful, but at pro level the player knows exactly what he's doing here, and the referee hasn't fallen for it.
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
He knows a shot attempt is coming through if he doesn't get that header - it's Ronaldo for freckles' sake. So once he does miss, he lets the goalside arm flail way more than is natural. It's totally unnecessary and unrelated to his previous body movement.

Easy PK and caution, don't mind whether it's called under deliberate or under accidental-unnatural.

Maybe at social grade you let this go, maybe at local level you have a word for them to be very careful, but at pro level the player knows exactly what he's doing here, and the referee hasn't fallen for it.
It is completely unnatural to jump backwards and not put your arms out. Anyone who's played football knows that when there's someone behind you and youre jumping backwards you will always put your arms out for protection. It's the natural thing to do. This is absolutely not handball imo, and I'm sure football doesn't want or expect handball here.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
It is completely unnatural to jump backwards and not put your arms out. Anyone who's played football knows that when there's someone behind you and youre jumping backwards you will always put your arms out for protection. It's the natural thing to do. This is absolutely not handball imo, and I'm sure football doesn't want or expect handball here.
Couldn't agree more
@Ross can we get a 'double like' feature added (maybe a 'dislike' n'all)
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Couldn't agree more
@Ross can we get a 'double like' feature added (maybe a 'dislike' n'all)
The more IFAB tries who clarify handball, the more complicated and confusing to fans and players it becomes. Just leave it at deliberate handball and allow the referee to decide if he believes it was or not. Attempts to clarify handball have only succeded in making it less clear.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
The more IFAB tries who clarify handball, the more complicated and confusing to fans and players it becomes. Just leave it at deliberate handball and allow the referee to decide if he believes it was or not. Attempts to clarify handball have only succeded in making it less clear.
They've tried to verbalise safe refereeing. Not only have they made an arse of this, they're also moving away from what we expect in the UK
If referees are all over the place with HB, is it any surprise that players and managers have no clue whatsoever?
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
Level 3 Referee
In real time, not for me.

In slow motion it does look like he is moving his arm unnaturally to make himself look bigger. So I can see why it has been given, but I was under the assumption that we shouldn't use slow motion to help decide on that?

Regardless, I wouldn't be confident on the field to be saying that was a handball.
 

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
"Calabria stopped Ronaldo from scoring spectacular goal again AC Milan." No he didn't. It might have gone to a teammate but it wasn't goal bound or spectacular!

But yeah 2019 top level pen as explained above.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
All I can say with the current laws, handball is a lottery. Add VAR to that and attackers get a second chance draw.

It is far more common for VAR to give a handball than overturn it.
 

JH

RefChat Addict
Although handball is a mess, I really don't think "just allow the referee to decide if deliberate" helps at all, it's just far to vague. We need something clear, concise and specific (which isn't easy).
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Although handball is a mess, I really don't think "just allow the referee to decide if deliberate" helps at all, it's just far to vague. We need something clear, concise and specific (which isn't easy).
The more clear, concise and specific we are the worse it's become I'm afraid. Handball has always been contentious, but it's much worse now than it used to be.
 

JH

RefChat Addict
The more clear, concise and specific we are the worse it's become I'm afraid. Handball has always been contentious, but it's much worse now than it used to be.
It is anything but clear, concise and specific at the moment. Nobody knows what's what.
 

afronaut81

Well-Known Member
Level 7 Referee
Wow. That's not HB for me.
Not deliberate and it's only "usually" HB not "always" if it's making your body unnaturally bigger.
 

Mintyref

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
He knows a shot attempt is coming through if he doesn't get that header - it's Ronaldo for freckles' sake. So once he does miss, he lets the goalside arm flail way more than is natural. It's totally unnecessary and unrelated to his previous body movement.

Easy PK and caution, don't mind whether it's called under deliberate or under accidental-unnatural.

Maybe at social grade you let this go, maybe at local level you have a word for them to be very careful, but at pro level the player knows exactly what he's doing here, and the referee hasn't fallen for it.
Stop trolling........
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
Level 7 Referee
What a load of trollocks the HB law has become if this is HB! I’m glad I’m retired as I wouldn’t be calling that even if it cost me promotion!
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
Under the current handball law that is an offence. His arms are out, it hasn't deflected off his body, so the expectation is that it is a handling offence.

I've said this time and time again, but the problem is that the laws are made by people that have never played football. Anyone who has played would know that the defenders arms here were in a perfectly natural position for someone who has jumped and is landing from that. Footballers aren't penguins and can't play with their arms pinned by their sides, but we are where we are and that is because people that make the laws don't actually understand football.
 
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