RefSix

A strange one

#21
Is this controlled in any way by an administrator? What stops a referee ending up out of their depth because they thing they are good enough to do a certain game?
In our system referees can only swap/move or pick up extra games if they get the OK of the appointments officer.
We have a specified level we can whistle or flag or assess at, for men, women, girls, boys... all different.

So, I can "buy" at only the levels permissible. For me whistle: M4, W1, B4, G1, flag: M3, W1, B2, G1. Promotion isn't automatic across the board. I got G1 quickly from taking a lot of extra U16/18 girls' games. Even though I am not qualified for elite U16/20 boys I have flagged about 5 games. B4 is an odd one. I seem to have been overlooked there but I have still done the 2nd tier of all boys' leagues with the whistle. Male refs only get max women's first - not women's prem - but male assistants are often required when our best female refs are away at tournaments.

If you "sell" a game and nobody buys, it's your job to get it fulfilled, so it's handy that we have access to all phone numbers, it's relatively easy to whip up a list of e.g. all ARs qualified to women's 2nd division, that haven't marked themselves as unavailable or have games that day - and then send a bunch of text messages. The worst that can happen is you are ill on a busy weekend and can't get cover - than you ask the refsec for help and/or find someone going for promotion sensible enough to do a level above their weight.

And e.g. at the end of the season, or on a difficult weekend, if you see a game a level up that obviously needs help, and you are enthusiastic and trustworthy, you ask the refsec to fix it in the system. Happens to me once or twice a season.

Oh and you can directly swap games with specific refs to accept, or list them in the "marketplace".

And there's more... we can see all our region's games... and all the other regions' games if we want. And we can get permission to join neighbouring regional FAs and then "buy" their games to help out.

And all the match reports go in the same system! And all the teams manage the team sheets in the same system! And it does the goals/assists/cards/bans/tables...!

And we have the same for futsal, in the same system... different game I know;)

...it's out there;)
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
#22
Honestly sounds great! One of the biggest faff's I have to deal with is having to put closed dates in MOAS, then go out of my way to email 4 refsec's to close any saturday, 2 different refsec's to close any Sunday dates and a further 2 to close any midweek dates. And just to add fun to that, one of the Sunday refsec's seems to have taken the approach of just assigning me games regardless of if the date's closed or not and hoping I forget to email him back and get taken off!
 

Brian Hamilton

I am the storm
Observer/Tutor
#23
????? - Don't understand that at all and doesn't change the fact that surely more sensible and correct to follow procedures you have been told about rather than just the 3 of you ignore them and turn up anyway.
We have different kick times in Aug-Oct and Mar-May than from Nov--Feb. There is an email which is sent out on appointment, 2 weeks before and 1 week before the appointment. Our rules state that clubs must contact the match officials. |If they don't, the match officials should turn up and then report the club afterwards. Where is it not clear?
 
#24
For Bostick Under 23s referee appointments officer has said its up to referee to contact home club if not heard anything 48 hours before a match.

This is also in 'Guidelines for match officials' on the web site.
I must admit I've not experienced teams being late except the Bedfont Sports fixture the other week where officials changed so much the club didn't know who had or had not been given conformation.

However, whatever competition, I always make a courtesy contact to them first and if I don't get a response then I'll take it to the league.
 

PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
#25
I must admit I've not experienced teams being late except the Bedfont Sports fixture the other week where officials changed so much the club didn't know who had or had not been given conformation.

However, whatever competition, I always make a courtesy contact to them first and if I don't get a response then I'll take it to the league.
Hello mate,

You've just been lucky I guess! My last U23 fixture was only confirmed the day before!
 

Phonesurgeon

Cook, Cleaner and Bottle Washer
#26
Update

Turned up to the county cup fixture (I knew where the ground was), game scheduled to 14:00 kick off... The game was almost finished!
They kicked off at 12:00, and when I showed the email appointing me as ref, the home manager said that they had no communication from CFA.
So I left and emailed the ref sec as to what happened.
The home manager contacted the away manager and they agreed 12pm kick off, they didn't say whether or not CFA was aware of change.
 

PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
#28
Update

Turned up to the county cup fixture (I knew where the ground was), game scheduled to 14:00 kick off... The game was almost finished!
They kicked off at 12:00, and when I showed the email appointing me as ref, the home manager said that they had no communication from CFA.
So I left and emailed the ref sec as to what happened.
The home manager contacted the away manager and they agreed 12pm kick off, they didn't say whether or not CFA was aware of change.
A classic example of why the 'Just turn up' method is flawed!
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#29
A classic example of why the 'Just turn up' method is flawed!
Not really. I expect the referee will br compensated with full match fee.
I also would expect that the tie would need to be replayed/or both sides kicked out from the competition along with a fine, each. For failing to fulfil.
 

PinnerPaul

RefChat Addict
#30
Not really. I expect the referee will br compensated with full match fee.
I also would expect that the tie would need to be replayed/or both sides kicked out from the competition along with a fine, each. For failing to fulfil.
Don't often disagree with you James but do here. All that you say could have been avoided with a simple call - surely easier all round?
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#31
Don't often disagree with you James but do here. All that you say could have been avoided with a simple call - surely easier all round?
Yes. Sorry mate. I dont disagree with you. I was more in disagreement with it being the end of the just turn up argument. As Rusty pointed out the SCOR states clubs are responsible for pre match contact. What if I ring and cant get through. I would personally tell my appointment officer, no contact, tried to contact and I know 100% he would tell me to still attend the ground at the allotted time..its the done thing.
I used to do a lot of schools games which involved zero contact between school and me. I was told where to go and what time. So I just had to turn up. 1 time the game was cancelled. I got full fee and I bet the school never forgot to tell the appointer about a game being off again..
I am.not advocating making no attempt, more just disagreeing that the post renders just turning up pointless.
 

Phonesurgeon

Cook, Cleaner and Bottle Washer
#34
My 2p wort...
2 team playing in 2 different league, received the county cup fixture. Along with the appointed referee and start time! Yet they pleaded no communication given from CFA. How did they know they were playing each other?
Little side story... Home club was having a bonfire and firework event advertised locally on social media, admission based and starting at 16.30. Coincidence with the early kick off? Perhaps, one can only speculate!
 

lincs22

Supply League Observer
Staff member
Observer/Tutor
#35
My 2p wort...
2 team playing in 2 different league, received the county cup fixture. Along with the appointed referee and start time! Yet they pleaded no communication given from CFA. How did they know they were playing each other?
Little side story... Home club was having a bonfire and firework event advertised locally on social media, admission based and starting at 16.30. Coincidence with the early kick off? Perhaps, one can only speculate!
Check the County Cup rules, do they require the clubs to contact you? Remember, County cup rules do not follow SCOR, which are for leagues....

If they should have, report them to the CFA. Ask for the CFA to pay your travel expenses.

Then, that is all you have to do. It is the CFA to take forward, but use as a learning event. Some league which don't have referees normally, aren't use to the correct procedure. So when it comes a County cup match, they don't realise the difference and simple do the same as every Saturday - especially if it is junior football.
 

Phonesurgeon

Cook, Cleaner and Bottle Washer
#36
@lincs22
County cup rules require home club to contact referee prior to game.
I have emailed CFA ref sec with what happened, and asked for match fees on Sunday, so far no reply.
First time it happened to me.
 

Brian Hamilton

I am the storm
Observer/Tutor
#37
Update

Turned up to the county cup fixture (I knew where the ground was), game scheduled to 14:00 kick off... The game was almost finished!
They kicked off at 12:00, and when I showed the email appointing me as ref, the home manager said that they had no communication from CFA.
So I left and emailed the ref sec as to what happened.
The home manager contacted the away manager and they agreed 12pm kick off, they didn't say whether or not CFA was aware of change.
If this was a WRCFA game, the emails clearly state that kick off times cannot be changed without the approval of the County FA. A team tried it on last week with me and asked if I could referee another of their teams before the County appointment (cheeky). Got a bit huffy when I said the County had to agree the change and I already had a game at their proposed kick off time. I got taken off the game and given another in place of it. I checked their score later after I had refereed my second County game on the same day and saw they were hammered at home.
 

Phonesurgeon

Cook, Cleaner and Bottle Washer
#38
@Brian Hamilton

Indeed it was a WRCFA county cup, and also seen the comp rules and agree with you there. Didn't get any communication from home team, I turned up 35 minutes before the scheduled kick off, game was almost finished. Not a lot I could do!
 

Brian Hamilton

I am the storm
Observer/Tutor
#39
@Brian Hamilton

Indeed it was a WRCFA county cup, and also seen the comp rules and agree with you there. Didn't get any communication from home team, I turned up 35 minutes before the scheduled kick off, game was almost finished. Not a lot I could do!
Except report it to the County FA as you have done. I would have made an enquiry about fees rather than ask for them. Subtle difference, better impression.
 
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