A&H

A player has been cautioned already during the match. During a penalty shootout the player commits a cautionable offence.

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newref

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A player has been cautioned already during the match. During the middle of a penalty shootout the same player commits a cautionable offence. What action should the referee take? And if it is a second yellow and hence a red card, should the opposition reduce to equate? How would they do that in the middle of the shootout? This is one for the brave :p
 
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newref said:
A player has been cautioned already during the match. During the middle of a penalty shootout the same player commits a cautionable offence. What action should the referee take? And if it is a second yellow and hence a red card, should the opposition reduce to equate? How would they do that in the middle of the shootout? This is one for the brave :p
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Not that brave. You've proposed the right answer yourself. Opposition choose any player to eliminate to match up the numbers
 
Big Cat said:
Not that brave. You've proposed the right answer yourself. Opposition choose any player to eliminate to match up the numbers
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Disagree. My understanding is that you reduce to equate at the start of KFTM. However, if there is an injury or send-off, then you just continue the shoot-out ensuring that there are no repeat kickers until all kickers have kicked
 
skosten said:
Disagree. My understanding is that you reduce to equate at the start of KFTM. However, if there is an injury or send-off, then you just continue the shoot-out ensuring that there are no repeat kickers until all kickers have kicked
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And then reduce if it somehow goes to a second round of kicks no?
 
Let's rev the question up a bit. Can the opponents reduce the number of eligible players by omitting a player who has already taken a kick, keeping in mind that such a player would still otherwise be eligible should there be a second round of kicks?
 
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RobOda said:
And then reduce if it somehow goes to a second round of kicks no?
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My understanding is "no". They would continue the KFTM short and so a short team could be on 2nd round while larger team is still finishing first round. This is based upon an older position paper but I'm not familiar w/ any change (see http://www.askasoccerref.com/docs/KFTM_Checklist.pdf [see 6th bullet down from section "During kicks from the penalty mark (from the first kick onward)"). This of course could be abused, see http://www.askasoccerreferee.com/coaching-trick-at-kicks-from-the-penalty-mark/.

These references are a bit dated (2009 and 2012 respectively), but I reviewed current Law 10 again just now and don't see anything that would change the interpretation provided in these references.
 
skosten said:
My understanding is "no". They would continue the KFTM short and so a short team could be on 2nd round while larger team is still finishing first round. This is based upon an older position paper but I'm not familiar w/ any change (see http://www.askasoccerref.com/docs/KFTM_Checklist.pdf [see 6th bullet down from section "During kicks from the penalty mark (from the first kick onward)"). This of course could be abused, see http://www.askasoccerreferee.com/coaching-trick-at-kicks-from-the-penalty-mark/.

These references are a bit dated (2009 and 2012 respectively), but I reviewed current Law 10 again just now and don't see anything that would change the interpretation provided in these references.
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Law 10 is clear that at any time the teams have different numbers, including before and during each round of kicks, the team with more players is reduced.

"If at the end of the match and before or during the kicks one team has a greater number of players than its opponents, it must reduce its numbers ..."
 
It used to be that reduce to equate was only at the beginning. (Which never really made sense—it changed 2 or 3 years ago, I believe.)

While it should theoretically be done at the time the other team goes short, in practical terms it doesn’t matter until and unless you get to that last person taking a kick—which means it will rarely matter.
 
Big Cat said:
Let's rev the question up a bit. Can the opponents reduce the number of eligible players by omitting a player who has already taken a kick, keeping in mind that such a player would still otherwise be eligible should there be a second round of kicks?
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Another anomaly in the LOTG. Yes they can. If the player being excluded from opponent and the player who has been sent off are not on equal taken kicks (that is, in that round, one has take a kick and the other hasn't), then this would create an miss-synch for the remainder of the process. That is the round of kicks finished earlier for one team that the other.

In practice this should not be a problem and it should always work in favour of the non offending team as they are likely to exclude the 'worst kicker'.
 
We should also point out that if the offence is during their kick, then their kick would be recorded as missed.
 
JamesL said:
We should also point out that if the offence is during their kick, then their kick would be recorded as missed.
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Only after the signal has been given for kick to be taken and only for certain offences.
 

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one said:
Another anomaly in the LOTG. Yes they can. If the player being excluded from opponent and the player who has been sent off are not on equal taken kicks (that is, in that round, one has take a kick and the other hasn't), then this would create an miss-synch for the remainder of the process. That is the round of kicks finished earlier for one team that the other.
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Never really thought about this anomaly. But even more unlikely than many of our hypos. The better PK takers are going to be doing the first 5 and then the earliest of the sudden death. So the odds of team choosing to eliminate a better PK taker instead of a lesser one are pretty slim, absent some strange extenuating factors.
 
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