RefSix

A petition for improving grassroots football official's safety

Kes

I'll Decide ...
Level 5 Referee
But if you are storing my personal image, you are storing my personal info, as my image is classed as personal data which under gdpr principles means I have a right of access to that data. It's not as straightforward as whack a cam on and off you fly.
I work for a local authority. Anyone, whose image we capture on cctv has a right to access those images, this is images captured in a public place.
Whilst a civil matter, if a player wanted access to the images of them you had captured and stored, they would have a right of access under gdpr legislation.
I'm more than aware of the requirements of data protection. We're not talking about that. Sure, anybody is within their rights (if they can prove you still have it) to legally request a copy of any personal data/images of them that you may possess, but that in no way stops you obtaining it. Data protection laws stipulate the period of retention, and that the data has to be relevant, but again, there's nothing in law that says you can't film or collate data in the public sphere. So yes, actually, it is as straightforward as cam on and away you go (if you were that way inclined - which I'm not personally). :)
 

Justylove

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
There are other considerations as well. I volunteer for the RNLI and our crews wear Go Pro’s whilst out on the water. The footage is used for training and promotional purposes including for the BBC Saving Lives At Sea TV programme.

There are considerations around the ownership of the footage and at what point ownership transfers. As part of that all of the people who are capturing the footage by wearing the camera have to sign to assign the rights.

There’s also consideration around where and how that footage gets stored and who can access it.

Finally there is a consent of those being filmed in order to be able to share it publicly.

For football you’d need the following:

1) all referees to agree to assign footage rights to either The FA or the County FA
2) a mechanism for referees to upload footage to a central site and have the entity that owns the footage store and manage it. That would require a significant infrastructure investment to support.
3) All clubs to include a clause when players sign on to give permission to be filmed
4) a way of policing referees who are not using cameras or not uploading footage.
5) a way of mitigating potential GDPR breaches though the referee not deleting the footage from personal devices after uploading

These are the things off the top of my head. I’m sure there are more I’ve forgotten. Reality is that whilst referee assaults are horrific, they occur in a minuscule number of matches, so trying to implement a highly complex system to catch the handful of incidents that happen each season feels like a major overkill.

As others have said, this would be a sticking plaster over the issue.

Proactive measures from the top of the game down to set the right example is required for wholesale change.

Reactive measures of tougher sanctions for those that threaten or assault match officials also will help weed out those perpetuating these types of offences.
 

Yampy

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
All the above arguments appear to assume that the referee would wear the thing in the first place. Something I very much doubt the large majority would.
It's fanciful to imagine any compulsory edict could ever get off the ground. If it did, who is going to fund such an undertaking? Many officials choke on their cornflakes over the price of a plastic whistle!
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
Level 5 Referee
There are other considerations as well. I volunteer for the RNLI and our crews wear Go Pro’s whilst out on the water. The footage is used for training and promotional purposes including for the BBC Saving Lives At Sea TV programme.

There are considerations around the ownership of the footage and at what point ownership transfers. As part of that all of the people who are capturing the footage by wearing the camera have to sign to assign the rights.

There’s also consideration around where and how that footage gets stored and who can access it.

Finally there is a consent of those being filmed in order to be able to share it publicly.

For football you’d need the following:

1) all referees to agree to assign footage rights to either The FA or the County FA
2) a mechanism for referees to upload footage to a central site and have the entity that owns the footage store and manage it. That would require a significant infrastructure investment to support.
3) All clubs to include a clause when players sign on to give permission to be filmed
4) a way of policing referees who are not using cameras or not uploading footage.
5) a way of mitigating potential GDPR breaches though the referee not deleting the footage from personal devices after uploading

These are the things off the top of my head. I’m sure there are more I’ve forgotten. Reality is that whilst referee assaults are horrific, they occur in a minuscule number of matches, so trying to implement a highly complex system to catch the handful of incidents that happen each season feels like a major overkill.

As others have said, this would be a sticking plaster over the issue.

Proactive measures from the top of the game down to set the right example is required for wholesale change.

Reactive measures of tougher sanctions for those that threaten or assault match officials also will help weed out those perpetuating these types of offences.
Agree with all of the above, but again, in the context of this thread, there's no "public sharing". A ref that wanted to do it and then use it for legal/disciplinary purposes might fall prey to all the legislation already alluded to but a guy who simply did it and watched it in his home for his own personal development would be breaking no laws - apart from FA protocol.
 

Justylove

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Agree with all of the above, but again, in the context of this thread, there's no "public sharing". A ref that wanted to do it and then use it for legal/disciplinary purposes might fall prey to all the legislation already alluded to but a guy who simply did it and watched it in his home for his own personal development would be breaking no laws - apart from FA protocol.
Right up to the point that the referees phone or pc gets hacked and it the footage gets stolen and shared, or they send it to mate on WhatsApp and it ends up somewhere in the public domain.

I’m being a bit provocative here, but the reality is that either the referee owns the footage and is then responsible for it (in which case the FA can’t mandate anything as it relates to usage) or the FA/CFA owns the footage and then has a whole raft of considerations as per my previous posting.

You also would have situations where it could harm the referee who gets assaulted but wasn’t recording (forgot the camera, battery died, chose not to), because the de facto standard of proof becomes a clear recording of the incident.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Are puplic swimming pools considered public spaces in the UK and filming allowed? How about videoing minors at the beach?
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Are puplic swimming pools considered public spaces in the UK and filming allowed? How about videoing minors at the beach?
Legally speaking there is nothing to stop someone from rocking up at the beach and photographing and videoing whatever they want, the exceptions to this are things around anti-terrorism stuff like taking photos of sensitive locations, but even then the Police can't just turn up and confiscate the camera or delete photos.

Publis swimming pools would depend entirely on where the pool is and whether it is a a "proper" public pool where it's in a park and anyone can use it with no charge etc or whether you mean the local swimming bathes which are normally run by the council and charge and entrance fee etc.


 

ChasTutorObserver

Regular Contributor
Legally speaking there is nothing to stop someone from rocking up at the beach and photographing and videoing whatever they want, the exceptions to this are things around anti-terrorism stuff like taking photos of sensitive locations, but even then the Police can't just turn up and confiscate the camera or delete photos.

Publis swimming pools would depend entirely on where the pool is and whether it is a a "proper" public pool where it's in a park and anyone can use it with no charge etc or whether you mean the local swimming bathes which are normally run by the council and charge and entrance fee etc.


The FA website has a section which covers the issue of photography at matches, which may help.
As a personal view, I am not in favour of referees inviting comment/aggro by wearing a camera for the very rare occasion when some form of assault or threat may occur.
 
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