A&H

A decision to make .. some advice please

R

refeire

Active Member
I referee in Ireland under the FAI. I have recently been nominated to attend the FAI's Referee School of Excellence (SOE). In essence it's a fast track programme aimed at bringing referees from grassroots up to professional/semi professional football. There are no guarantees of success after it, but if you wish to succeed in refereeing under the FAI then being a graduate of the SOE is a must. It is a 2 yr programme. You must be nominated by your observer (which I have) and then to get accepted you must pass a series of tests on the LOTG, a fitness test, an interview and then be observed refereeing in the middle and on a line.

If I was set on staying in Ireland my whole life then the choice to go in would be obvious. However, I have recently had the opportunity to be able to move back to England and continue my (main) career back there. I would like to move back, but I'm uncertain what this could mean for my refereeing. I understand the FA won't recognise any previous experience (6yrs but only 4 seasons - thanks C19) and I'd have to start at level 7? I believe you can get promoted once a season, but is that being unrealistic? The ladder to the top seems to be a lot higher in England, I am 26 and time is not on my side.

The pros of England seem to be the rewards of making it to the top (if you get there) are far greater than in Ireland (EFL football). There also appears to be far better investment and structure within the FA. The con is I don't know if it's realistic to make it to the top levels in England due age.

The pros in Ireland are that the ladder to the top is a lot shorter and there is far less competition. Getting to the top level here is very realistic, with it can come nominations for European football as an FAI ref. The cons are that it's Irish football, there is a lack of referee investment and I myself would rather move back to England, but I'm not prepared to throw my ambitions of hopefully reffing at a high level in the bin for it.

Any thoughts/inputs would be greatly appreciated, if you feel I have got some things very wrong please let me know
 
The Referee Store
At age 26, time's hardly against you.

THE FA (here in England) is where it's at.

From Level 3 onwards promotion is based on merit/luck. There's no reason why you couldn't be refereeing higher than that. It all depends on what you mean by getting "to the top" I suppose.

I know what I'd do. ;) :) 👍
 
Kes said:
At age 26, time's hardly against you.

THE FA (here in England) is where it's at.

From Level 3 onwards promotion is based on merit/luck. There's no reason why you couldn't be refereeing higher than that. It all depends on what you mean by getting "to the top" I suppose.

I know what I'd do. ;) :) 👍
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Well I have always had an ambition of refereeing European football. The likelihood of getting into the Irish top division and nominated for it just seems to be a lot more likely than getting into the PGMOL and then being nominated for it
 
refeire said:
Well I have always had an ambition of refereeing European football. The likelihood of getting into the Irish top division and nominated for it just seems to be a lot more likely than getting into the PGMOL and then being nominated for it
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Wow. Your sights are set pretty high then. :wide:

I have neither the experience nor the knowledge to comment further, outside of what I posted above mate.

Whatever decision you make, you could live to regret (or not) not taking either option.

Maybe look at your overall reasons for locating back to England (outside of refereeing) before you go making any decision based on just that aspect of it. ... ;)👍
 
You've got more chance of getting the European and International Football in Ireland than in England, but if you do make it in England, then you'll probably get more recognition.

No easy answer and only you can decide!
 
If you had to start at L7 in England you would have pretty much zero chance of making FIFA. To get onto FIFA you have to be refereeing in the country's top competition, so Premier League, and be not older than 37. To get from L7 to Premier League is 8 promotions, possibly 7 if you are with a county that allows acclerated promotion from 7 to 5, but few of these remain.

7 to 6 and 6 to 5 are pretty much a doddle if you are an even vaguely competent referee, but then it gets more challenging. 5 to 4 involves averaging 70 over 5 observations, but the issue there is even if you average well above that you still might not get promoted if they don't need any more L4s in the area you live in. L4 to L3 you need to finish in the top few places of your supply league for both observers and club marks, and hope there are vacancies at L3, and the same pretty much applies from there on in.

It isn't completely impossible, but it would need promotions every season and I've only ever seem that done once, with Stuart Attwell, and it didn't end well, at least not the first time around. Even if you look at our best referee, Michael Oliver, he spent three seasons in the Football League, but he had time on his side as he was L3 by the time he was 18 or 19.
 
If it was a pure refereeing decision, then I'd suggest staying in Ireland until you (hopefully) get to the very top and THEN coming over to England. That would enable you to achieve your European ambitions and would also allow you to start higher up the English ladder. How much higher is hard to say but I've seen ARs come in at Panel Select level (National League) and obviously Jared Gillett transferred in even higher.
 
refeire said:
I referee in Ireland under the FAI. I have recently been nominated to attend the FAI's Referee School of Excellence (SOE). In essence it's a fast track programme aimed at bringing referees from grassroots up to professional/semi professional football. There are no guarantees of success after it, but if you wish to succeed in refereeing under the FAI then being a graduate of the SOE is a must. It is a 2 yr programme. You must be nominated by your observer (which I have) and then to get accepted you must pass a series of tests on the LOTG, a fitness test, an interview and then be observed refereeing in the middle and on a line.

If I was set on staying in Ireland my whole life then the choice to go in would be obvious. However, I have recently had the opportunity to be able to move back to England and continue my (main) career back there. I would like to move back, but I'm uncertain what this could mean for my refereeing. I understand the FA won't recognise any previous experience (6yrs but only 4 seasons - thanks C19) and I'd have to start at level 7? I believe you can get promoted once a season, but is that being unrealistic? The ladder to the top seems to be a lot higher in England, I am 26 and time is not on my side.

The pros of England seem to be the rewards of making it to the top (if you get there) are far greater than in Ireland (EFL football). There also appears to be far better investment and structure within the FA. The con is I don't know if it's realistic to make it to the top levels in England due age.

The pros in Ireland are that the ladder to the top is a lot shorter and there is far less competition. Getting to the top level here is very realistic, with it can come nominations for European football as an FAI ref. The cons are that it's Irish football, there is a lack of referee investment and I myself would rather move back to England, but I'm not prepared to throw my ambitions of hopefully reffing at a high level in the bin for it.

Any thoughts/inputs would be greatly appreciated, if you feel I have got some things very wrong please let me know
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Given the very slim chances of making it to the top (I'm sure a lot of luck is needed), I think it unwise to realistically consider Refereeing goals when considering career ambitions. Even for those fortunate enough to get an invite to SG1, there must be a significant percentage who turn it down
I wouldn't give up my day job to be a 'ball boy' (or girl) on the line in the EPL. The draw of 'middles' would still be different, but I doubt it's 'cracked up' to what your expectations must be
 
@RustyRef I thought it was level 7, then 6, 5 .. 1, then SG2, SG1, PGMOL - I notice you say it is 'only' 8 promotions to PL. I thought only PGMOL refs did PL games?. Anyhow, as expected, starting over again and reaching top flight in England to do the FIFA badge would be like trying to climb Everest, in comparison to Ireland where whilst it won't be 'easy', it's a realistic goal if you really want it. Mostly owing to a lack of young competition and less steps on the promotion ladder. Our observers are always saying 'the opportunities are there, you have to want them is all'.

@Russell Jones It does sound that would be the best way. You essentially get fast tracked here with this SOE.

@Big Cat I agree, the lack of certainty and sheer amount of luck required to succeed in refereeing makes it unwise to make personal and life choices based on it. I did actually stop refereeing for a period because I had to study in Europe, it wasn't a priority. In the last while though I've really taken to it in a way I've not before. I am in a situation where my other career will not suffer. I'd be continuing my exact same job but back in England. I am single so no one else to consider thankfully! :D
 
Based on what you type, in your shoes, I go far as can in Ireland
if you feel ambitious, are told you have the ability and so on, simply numbers wise you have greater chance in Ireland.
You can be the big fish in a small pond
or
A small fish in a big pond.

Alain Hamer was Luxemburg and had a fantastic european career, granted he mixed in games in Belguim and France tho
 
Anubis said:
Based on what you type, in your shoes, I go far as can in Ireland
if you feel ambitious, are told you have the ability and so on, simply numbers wise you have greater chance in Ireland.
You can be the big fish in a small pond
or
A small fish in a big pond.

Alain Hamer was Luxemburg and had a fantastic european career, granted he mixed in games in Belguim and France tho
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This bit is very true, goes for any field in life really
 
Big Cat said:
Given the very slim chances of making it to the top (I'm sure a lot of luck is needed), I think it unwise to realistically consider Refereeing goals when considering career ambitions. Even for those fortunate enough to get an invite to SG1, there must be a significant percentage who turn it down
I wouldn't give up my day job to be a 'ball boy' (or girl) on the line in the EPL. The draw of 'middles' would still be different, but I doubt it's 'cracked up' to what your expectations must be
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You do 7 to 6, 6 to 5, and then 5 to 4. At that point it gets a bit more complicated as you can choose lining only, but after that if you stay on the refereeing route is 4 to 3, 3 to 2B, 2B to 2A, 2A to Football League, Football League to Premier League, FIFA.
 
RustyRef said:
You do 7 to 6, 6 to 5, and then 5 to 4. At that point it gets a bit more complicated as you can choose lining only, but after that if you stay on the refereeing route is 4 to 3, 3 to 2B, 2B to 2A, 2A to Football League, Football League to Premier League, FIFA.
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You missed out Football League to Select Group 2 (SG2) and then to SG1 (basically Championship and then onto Premier League) so one additional step :)
 
Russell Jones said:
You missed out Football League to Select Group 2 (SG2) and then to SG1 (basically Championship and then onto Premier League) so one additional step :)
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Good point, not sure how I missed that.

It does point out how much more difficult it is now though. Previously they could go 7 to 5, or even 7 to 4, in a season, now very few CFAs offer that as an option. You used to go 3 to 2, now you go 3 to 2B to 2A. And you used you go FL to PL, now you go FL to SG2 to SG1, so there are now at least two extra years added to the path from 10 years ago.
 
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